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In Reply to: RE: Looking to S'phile's Rec. Comps. for help choosing preamps to audition/buy? posted by Rick W on March 23, 2015 at 10:20:27
on the used market.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
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Hard to beat IMO ...certainly at the "used" price ("new" it has gotten rather pricey). If there's a problem with "tube eating" (and IME there is), I'm now convinced that it the result of the heaters being left on (full bore) all the time. Someone who should know described it as "cathode poisoning". And it makes common sense...tubes are like light bulbs, if you leave them on 24/7/365 they won't last long.
At any rate I've started unplugging my AI-M3 when not in use...to test this theory and we'll see. It would be nice if the manufacturer would install an on/off switch on the power supply. But don't hold your breath on that one.
integrated. Never turned it off for 6 years until a resistor failed, Tubes tested as new
with the same kind of happy history. But I think the op was asking about the AI M3 which has a different history. Evidently there are exceptions but my experience with this preamp is that tube life is an issue. So much so that there seems to be consensus that only one brand of current production tube (Sovtek/EH) will survive for a reasonable length of time in an M3. In most cases NOS is "proceed at your own risk" due to their soaring cost.I've read various explanations for this problem (running the tubes too hard etc.) but I've come to believe that tube life is shortened, in this case, because the heaters (only) are being left on (fully-powered) for extended periods. This can and (IME) does cause the tubes to become noisy (not talking about micro-phonic here) and un-usable for audio purposes. This process is called cathode poisoning.
Obviously the manufacturer doesn't agree that there is a problem because the preamp has remained unchanged in this regard for years. I'm certainly no expert on this subject but have done a fair amount of research and my practice now with my M3a is to unplug it when not being used for more than a few hours. Not ideal but it seems to work.
Edits: 04/19/15
Ummm, actually, light bulbs will generally last much longer if left on all the time. Think about it, every single light bulb you've owned has probably burnt out on you when you turned it on, they *rarely* go out while on. The inrush current is what pops 'em...
-RW-
supposed to better for tube life that switching on and off. FWIW - in 20+ years running first a 3 and now a 3a I they have never "eaten" a single tube
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Edits: 04/04/15
I can't agree. I had tubes last 4 years in my AI L1. You gotta use the 6H23n-EB.
"I can't agree. I had tubes last 4 years in my AI L1. You gotta use the 6H23n-EB." -The Duke
While i do like the sound of tooby pre's and have one, tooby rolling is a PITA, worse the pre can go from good-better-best- to also ran, not to mention the sonic degradation over time and it wont last no 4 yrs, sonic degradation takes place long before toob failure.
Have to have that back-up SS......
tested them before I sold the unit, and they all were +90.
One must be very careful what they stuff in an AI
IT IS a tube eater.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Electro Harmonix which are said to be the current production of the same tube
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Proves the point doesn't it? Not saying that the Sovtek 6H23n-EB isn't a robust tube because it is (I've used it for years...ever since it was first offered for sale in the States). But if you use almost any other brand (NOS or current production) and leave the heaters powered up 24/7/365 like the AI-M3 does, they won't last but a few months. I'm simply offering this bit of advise, yes definitely use the EH/Sovtek tubes but also unplug the unit when it isn't being used...especially for more than a day or two. Simply placing the unit in the so-called "standby" mode isn't enough. The heaters remain fully powered.And who knows...this strategy might even enable AI owner's to experience more than one brand of vacuum tube...Amperex, Telefunken, Seimens etc. before they're extinct.
Edits: 04/02/15
My time with the AL M3a,left me unimpressed. Way over rated. Frankly, I think one of the greatest preamps is the Threshold Fet10 He by Nelson Pass. You can pick one up on ebay for under $2K. Stereophile Class A in the early 90s. Nothing better since then, period.
"My time with the AL M3a,left me unimpressed. Way over rated. Frankly, I think one of the greatest preamps is the Threshold Fet10 He by Nelson Pass. You can pick one up on ebay for under $2K. Stereophile Class A in the early 90s. Nothing better since then, period. "
- Darnit
Agree on the quality of the FET10, I dont think you can pick them up for under 2 K anymore and double with phono stage. I also have a Fet9e, with phono stage and those are now in the high teens. Currently listening to a custom toooby pre, that exceeds them on everything except pace. I think SS strongest punch, is pace..
Regards..
Edits: 04/03/15
I've heard it. IMO it'd be just a sideways move for me.
Had it and I found it overall to be overrated considering the longetivity of it's status. Given the used price though, its OK.
plus it chewed through tubes
it did/does NOT!Speaking from 25 years of experience. 6H23EBs and Electro Harmonix last a long time. I have never experienced a tube failure except with a couplee of new ones. They weere quickly replaced by the dealer
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
My experience which is not unique is my 3a used up tubes with vigor. Whether it was current production or NOS which was the way the pre sounded best. The sound quality of the unit was nice but I have had preamps that have bettered it noticeably.
I would tell Rick to look at a Bent Audio autoformer unit which is more then notably better and his DNA would work great with it but not sure John is selling them to the general public anymore.
Edits: 03/28/15
Nothing emotional about it. I like the sound and I am only stating facts based on my own experience. Both the previous 3 and current 3a have never "eaten" tubes. That's all...
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
I mostly used NOS russians tubes and they lasted OK but I did change tubes several times to try to get better sound. The Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid sounded noticeably better for peanuts money. A small Silvaweld preamp (the SWH450) simply demolished the AI, the big Silvaweld was in another universe from the AI.
Its ok though if you really like it...I wanted too because it is in some way a "coo" preamp but sonically I found it just didn't really deliver as promised.
I am simply unable to try many of the things I would like to hear. I tend to find stuff I like and keep it for a long time as you can see if you peruse "my system".
Many of the products you mention I've never even heard of. Some of you guys are simply out of my league.
Out of necessity, I have made substantial improvements in my system over the years at very little expense.
Also - I misunderstood Rick W to be looking on a budget.
Peace.....
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
I purposely mentioned two preamps that can be found for less than the AI Modulus and sound really good. The Silvaweld is a bit hard to find but the Transcendent sound can be had NEW and built for you (it is normally a kit) for less than $1K. If you can solder then it is about $600.
I purposely mentioned two preamps that can be found for less than the AI Modulus and sound really good. The Silvaweld is a bit hard to find but the Transcendent sound can be had NEW and built for you (it is normally a kit) for less than $1K. If you can solder then it is about $600.
- Morricab
Link to model ..?
NO?
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Yes, the Transcendent phono is like $500 also and should be very good.
nt
http://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/
Search for Silvaweld under manufacturers. There is a very nice SWA-1000 BFA available for 2600 euro. This is a SOTA (or nearly SOTA) preamp for a nice price. I had this exact model and it went toe-to-toe with the Kondo KSL M7, VacuumState and AcousticPlan preamps. I regret letting it go, but I have integrated amps now. I still have a Silvaweld phonostage that I will never sell...its that good.
Remember though that what is best to someone else may not be best to you. I have heard plenty of things that other people have said were better than my choices and most of the time I am left scratching my head - they may say it very forcefully or persuasively but at the end of the day people have different sonic goals and you know my taste.
I bought a speaker in 2003 and heard tons of stuff became a reviewer heard even more tons of stuff and then in 2014 I bought the bigger brother model of the speaker I already own after being told XYZ was vastly better - well it's not better to me. Although there is some stuff that I would say is as good but different.
The other day I heard a $80,000 system that some people would no doubt love with sparkling detail on guitar strings - people would know doubt find it accurate - I used the same recording as soon as I got home and that sparkle wasn't prominent but then neither was the sibilance and basically to me my system cleaned its clock. It's not even remotely close - but I can understand at least why someone would choose the XYZ - they would likely perceive it to be less coloured or more accurate etc but to me it was less whole and complete and less engaging. The $80k system would last 2 weeks here and I would be endlessly on the hunt to fix it. I knew with the speakers I bought last year that I would not need to fix it after 2 weeks.
And there is always something better - you can chase it endlessly or actually find something that is musically satisfying. The trappings of moving things in and out every week is that XYZ may come in and thump ABC on certain traits and it will be declared the superior product. Audiophile buzzword approved advantages likes soundstage and imaging are placed front and center above all other considerations. I remember comparing the MF A300 integrated to an old Sugden A48B - the former had AIR and a sense of openness about it. The Sugden sounded more than a little veiled in comparison - smaller thicker and in hi-fi terms is the worse amp.
I bought the Sugden - it was far better on vocals and bass was richer and "felt" deeper - the smaller scale seemed much better with female vocals lounge singer kinds of music. But the guy who trade the Sugden in to the dealer bought the MF!
and I truly appreciate your comments. There is no substitute for one's own ears.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
by chance?
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Naturally.
of me
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
the AIM3a had a bit of a cult following in my area, and many considered it a deal compared to the more expensive alternatives. I heard one driving Classe mono amps years ago, & depending on the LP, it could sound pretty decent, always warm and obviously tubey, it proved quite popular for a while.
If memory serves, I don't think it would fair nearly as well today, especially in terms of transparency. That said, I still enjoy my modified NAD1020 Thomlinson Holman designed pre-amp for what that's worth, the Modulas was considered a much superior pre.
I kinda like the idea of someone wanting to restored AIM3a ... especially if you can get one at a reasonable cost.
tb1
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