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In Reply to: RE: Another indicator that industry comes first with Stereophile... posted by morricab on March 17, 2015 at 02:42:58
This doesn't make any sense Cab, Stereophile has to rate the equipment they review, if you are critiquing their class-a category as being overblown and full of Hyperbole, then something can be said of that, everything cant be class-A and actually there are not, but JA may want to reconsider their class-A list, expanding Class-B and C and being a bit more stringent on their Class-A rating.
Personally i find most of the monthly stuff boring , from everyone really! there is so much new and unknown in the market place for eg, is a 20.7 better than sound lab, analysis, et al, who makes the best panel speaker or are they all a lateral move, what about the very overpriced, are the new comers better than the original over priced, The Gen1.1, Are magico ,rockport, wilson on that level or Better? what about all the new comers only show goer's get to hear..?
Sad how boring this has become .....
Any serious article entertaining this type of conversation would drive more readership than current blah, blah ,blah, I had 2 yrs of sub to Stereophile and cant recall more than a glance at one, Fremer being the exception.
C'mon John, is a dartzeel up against Boulder, Is the JC-1 as much for less, where's the worth... ?
Regards...
Follow Ups:
It makes perfect sense...the system is called "Recommended Components" not, "Here is a rating system from A++ to F". By putting a component in a category you are RECOMMENDING this component or else the name is false advertising.
A component that is not recommended would therefore not show up on the list.
I agree though that much more head to head of what is perceived to be the best might reveal more than a few "Emperor's new Clothes" components.
For my own part, when I was reviewing for Positive Feedback, I tried to get groups of gear together for head to head shootouts. I was really only successful for preamps, being logistically easier to deal with, but would have loved to get all the great amps I have heard together for a massive shootout.
Preamps were easier as well because I didn't have to worry about speaker matching. My amp at the time had a sufficiently high input impedance (over 20Kohm) so matching was theoretically not an issue. I managed to get several top end preamps for two shootouts. You can look it up in the archives.
I like how Hifi Choice still does the six-way shootouts but they do it usually with boring mid-fi gear. Even the winner I couldn't care less about. The top high end companies don't really want to be critically reviewed (I had darTZeel refuse to give me an amp to review...even after I went to visit them near Geneva. I told them that I cannot guarantee a positive review and they got scared I think).
The thing is there doesnt have to be a "winner" , there never is with Audio, the best and IMO the most accurate way to describe the Best, is through their capabilities, which is what "recommended components" try to do in some sort of way.With current upgrades and changes, the CLass-A list has to reflect this, yet it does not, there is not even a discussion as to the best of the best.
An article on the collective class-A equipment would go along way in removing the smoke and mirrors, a kind of synapsis on the list so to speak and actually something to read.
No technical articles anymore, Bascom too Bizzy ?
As to Dartzeel , you may have to take the method favored by the original Audio Critic, buy , test and sell or Borrow test and run.I'm sure one of your soon to be not friends after the review could lend you one ..:)
Edits: 03/18/15
Yeah, a shootout amongst the Class A, king wannabes, would be enlightening...with the clear mandate that all but the top 3 lose their Class A mandate and fall to B or worse upon review.
There doesn't have to be one best but only a very few would be appropriate from what I have heard out there.
Don't have the money to follow the catch and release policy...would probably take too big a hit these days in the resale.
As you know, my friends and I do fairly often informal testing sessions where we bring our high end gear together. Sometimes its preamps, sometimes DACs, sometimes amps (more complicated due to the size and weight of some of our beasts).
We still stay friends, although sometimes I am sure some people leave a bit dissatisfied.
I know what you mean, I think Class-A would have a bit more than 3 contenders thou. Heard a WA X1 /Krell with sub and upgrades last week, It still have the shouty middle, haven't heard the XLF to see if it is still there thou.
A pity none of the mags even hint at giving the public something, but since you are already doing shootouts, you have material .
Edits: 03/18/15
I have a friend who used to have the WA X1 (series 1) and it sounded GREAT with a 30 watt KR audio VA350i. I mean really amazing and up to that point I hadn't heard WA sound anything like I would want to own. Keep in mind the original was 95db/watt and a pretty easy load as well. We were playing Kodo drums loud enough to feel it in the gut!
There is a good reason WA demos a lot with LAMM...tubes and WA big speakers work. Only the Watt/Puppy was not such a good match because it has a wonky and low impedance that made it tough on some tube amps (stil the best I heard from that speakers was a W/P 7 with Lamm ML1.1 90 watt push/pull triode amps).
Did a bit of a shootout today. A fried of mine came over with his KR VA350i (was mine...sold it to protect the baby) and we compared it to my NAT Symbiosis on my Odeons. Well, the KR is the superior of the two amps on that we both agreed. More low level resolution, more space between instruments and more 3d imaging. Nicer highs and nicer bass too. Breathed more. However, listening in isolation we agreed that both amps sound excellent and do most things right...just the KR was more right. Put the two amps on a more difficult speaker it might reverse...but I doubt it as I put that KR on everything and it just delivers. Then NAT also needs like 2 hours of playing to "get there" and the KR is full on by 30 minutes. Sigh...
Nat get good reviews so does KR, well from Owners and shows. As to the WA, i was going to say i can understand them working with toobs, the upper mid shout would be tamed by softer tooby output in the top end. Those Krells dont sound like that on the ribbons, so i know its not the amplifiers, that metal dome tweeter really need taming, i can see such a symbiotic relationship with X1's and tubes working ...If you have them in a small to mid size room you can get them up pretty loud i bet..
Stereophile did test the KR, but i cant recall seeing any NATAUDIO ...
Edits: 03/19/15
NAT was reviewed a couple of times in Hifi News and Record Review. They looked at the NAT SE1 MK2 and the NAT Transmitter. Both by Ken Kessler I think. The same mag also reviewed KR Audio Kronzilla SXi and said it was one of the best they had heard.
THat stereophile review is for an old, no longer made amp that predates the current Kronzilla models. However, these older models, which still go used for quite a bit of money, are supposed to sound extremely good as well (particularly the VT800 Mk).
NAT's biggest problems seems to be long term reliability. They run very hot and at very high voltages (like 1200V for their 211 based amps) and seem to have parts failures after some years. Since mine is a hybrid with SS output it doesn't get as hot nor have all that high voltage running around. So, I HOPE it lasts longer without issues.
The KRs are very reliable in my experience.
Other than good old head to head stuff
Edits: 03/18/15
Once upon a time they were not afraid to declare a winner. I know that there are simply a LOT more components out there nowadays (especially now coming from the Far East and Eastern Europe) so it is harder to declare the best of the best...but someone should step up and try.
I am particularly impressed with what is coming out of Eastern Europe at the moment. Their tube amps and hybrid amps are just damned good. There are a lot of old tube engineers who really know this stuff and did truly innovative things with tubes after a 40 year break from tube innovation. Many of my current and previous amps were from Czech, Slovakia or Serbia.
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