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In Reply to: RE: Sorry but my memory is fading posted by samtellig on February 27, 2015 at 07:25:28
In other words, actives suck, and passives are far more transparent. Agree.
Unless as you said, you are talking about one that costs as much as a Mercedes.
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I find it source dependent. A ballsy high output low impedance source doesn't need another gain stage after it.
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...yes, and just about every modern source falls into this category.
What are these Ballsy source equipment, a name would help as a reference. ?
My Trivista SACD tube analog out is 2.35VRMS @50 ohms. Oppo 2.1VRMS, Ayre 2.25V,NAD 2.2V
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The majority of modern sources out out over 2V and are low impedance...very few will fall out of that category.
I find the opposite, Passives are dead sounding, active brings life to the table...
Regards.
I certainly respect your take but in my opinion a dead sounding passive is just exposing a dead sounding source or amp. We are talking about a GOOD passive.
Well,Having tried quite a few Pre's , active and passive over the years, when we doing developement or just plain listening for pleasure. I'm not sure why Sam would suggest 54K to get you there, since any system is synergistic by nature.
As to adding , passive pre's add plus take away, well they all do, there is no such thing as no finger print from electronics or anything in the audio chain, That aside, active pre's bring more to the table than a passive, if you have a very hot forward system, digititis for eg. then i can see a passive pre helping to tame such.
That synergy thing again...
Edits: 02/27/15
I agree that 54K is an arbitrary figure, but budget preamps are a dead end for sure. But just like the American Dream people keep believing.
I will say this, it is a matter of priorities. There is no doubt that adding a tube pre to a system means you are adding a coloration. But..there is actually NOTHING wrong with that IMO. I never understood this obsession with neutrality...I am for what sounds good. Listening to a system while gritting my teeth in the name of neutrality is not for me.
I agree that active give and take, and they "bring more to the table", and that is a problem..they should not theoretically bring anything.
I like a passive with a tube amp and a tubed unit with a SS amp.
But it ain't cheap.
Up to about $9,000 depending on how you configure it and the value of the British pound.
There's also Bespoke Audio, run by some ex-employees of Music First.
The cheaper TVC units that I've heard are not so transparent.
Prices on these TVC units are just too high. The Bespoke stuff even commands a large premium over Music First.
When you own one, you understand why.
These units each require hours of costly, highly-skilled labor. I recall Harry O'Sullivan telling me about 16 hours' labor for each one.
There is no way for the manufacturer to ramp up production. No incentive for the manufacturer to offer a traditional 40 or 50 points dealer discount or run expensive ads when everything he makes get sold anyway.
There is, generally, no way for a prospective buyer to audition one in his system without buying it first. Unless you know someone who owns one.
You seldom see reviews. I paid in advance for my unit. But I had heard an earlier version in my system so I knew what I was getting and why I wanted it.
You might have to wire funds to the UK.
Somewhere, probably made in Asia, there may be comparable units for much less. The Django TVC preamp from Hong Kong might be such a product.
Meanwhile, setting TVC aside, Placette Audio appears to offer excellent performance and value in a more traditional passive.
There's a joker in the pack; the $49 Schiit Audio SYS volume control/source selector can destroy a schiitty run-of-the-mill solid state active preamp, Fun to have.
This is the problem I have - I want to hear the baby Reference here in Hong Kong but I have to buy it first. One advantage it has for a traveler like myself is that there is no worry over voltage.The preamp I am leaning toward presently is the Audio Note M6 Phono and I know the Baby Reference is very good since Warren Jarrett caries the AN preamps as well as the Music First Line.
I am in the gleaning information stage - transparency tick versus the big body and full blooded dynamics of the active (additive or not - it's the end result). I can compare the AN's rather easily since the dealer in HK is their biggest. The M6 and Empress Silvers dropped my jaw - I wasn't expecting that from 2A3.
The MFA though would save some large dollars that I could put elsewhere. I have not been impressed with any passives in the past however - they have sounded thin, lacking dynamics and body and texture and colour - it sounds like an X-ray of the music. Lots of steal on the string and nothing else. And while some say they're open and that that X-Ray sound is more accurate it is headache inducing to me
The same terms used to describe SS and I can't think of a single solid state amplifier that truly does it for me.
Edits: 03/07/15
Every thing you say about Music First is 100% accurate.
But it is still a massive inconvenience to purchase and or audition.
As good as it is, and it is outstanding, it is too high risk a purchase to buy without hearing it your system.
A few more should get honorable mention:
The CIAudio PLC-MK11:$900
Luminous Audio Axiiom: Approx $600 depending on configuration
Townshend Audio TVC: $1800?
Tisbury Audio Mini Passive: $300
Soft One passive: $600?
there are others too.
TVC's have their advantages for sure, but the expense make them tough choices.
No Schiit Audio SYS volume control/source selector? $49!!!
The exchange was specifically about Music First products.
Have it your way but $49!
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