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In Reply to: RE: Will the sun rise tomorrow? posted by Pat D on July 11, 2012 at 10:16:16
just listen to the tea party fools who claim that the bible (really, just the JEWISH old testament) is 100% accurate and it's truths are unchanging. WHERE have you been living for the last 30 + years?
Follow Ups:
Well, I have a passing interest in the history of religions, and certainly do not take fundamentalism as the paradigm for religion.
But of course, fundamentalism is a relatively new phenomenon--in Christianity, anyway.
But let's face it, all religions have histories, and have changed over time.
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
The Catholic church, like all fundamentalist religions that I know of, claims that it is infallible in many crucial beliefs and rituals. IMO, there is no more reason to believe in any religion as there is a reason to believe in the tooth fairy or the flying spaghetti monster. And, NO, an atheist's view that there is no god, is NOT based on faith. Like all beliefs, it's based on experience, and is subject to change given new experience. As Bill Maher, an atheist, puts it: I don't believe in Jesus Christ, but if he came down and started performing miracles, then I would say: "look, there is Jesus, and he is performing miracles. WOW! I was clearly wrong, and I now believe." If religions did not try to impose their "infallible" views on the rest of us, I would not care what nonsense they believed in. Unfortunately, the history of man is filled with many disasters that religions have caused.
Religions are dragged forward by secular society. Take gay rights which is occurring now. Religions basically are being PUSHED to do the right thing as they were pushed to give women the vote and African Americans equality. They are pushed by non religious (largely Atheists or those who consider themselves non-religious) to follow a more tolerant path.
I just met an Anglican priest on the ferry the other day - not only was she a she but she is a Lesbian and not just a Lesbian but a married Lesbian.
So the Anglican church seems to have re-evaluated some things. Then again why not - it's about money collecting so if you open up to the gays that's a whopping 5-10% of the world population you can market your church to.
Guys like Dawkins couldn't care less what people believe in. The problem he had and others is when people are killing people in the name of their God when there is no evidence. The thinking is that if you stop their "wrong" and "un-proven" belief system then maybe they won't fly plane's into building in the hope that they will get 72 virgins for doing so.
If those guys were not so totally convinced by getting 72 virgins and being in God's good books and they were taught to believe in stuff that could be proved then those towers would still be there and the religious nutter retaliation that followed would not have followed and the entire war would not have started and tens of thousands of people would be alive and arguably the financial state of the US and the rest of the world would be FAR better and people would still have their homes.
All because people are believing in something that has absolute no basis to be believed in any way shape or form - not remotely.
It's like the cable debate but people argue to the death that spending $2,000 on a cable is stupid when evidence illustrates it sounds no different than $5 cables - but so what - the worst that someone spending the $2k cables on will do to the world is umm "help the economy."
Believing you get 72 virgins in death or that God has a plan for you (so if you kill 50 people - it's not my fault it was God's plan for me to kill 50 people) is just slightly more important than the guy who spent $2k on cables (and at least he is happy in his belief and hasn't killed anyone).
Ultimately the problem with all religions is that they demand supreme acceptance of their "truth" and then discount everyone else's religion as being WRONG.
So one guy with zero proof will rip the other guy with zero proof. And no on this forum they're trying to rip science which is the only thing that actually has any evidence whatsoever.
As a non believer I am asked to not believe Scientology because it's Craaaazy - I am asked not to believe in Mormonism because it's Caraaazy
But I am asked to believe in Christianity because it's
"The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree."
Yes that's not caraaaazy? I am supposed to throw all science under the bus and believe the above? Yeah ok.
Infallibility implies a certain unchangeability in doctrine, and in many cases, this has been very difficult to prove historically.
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
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