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I've been following a thread over on Hi-Rez about the Denon DCD-A100 CD/SACD player, a recent post questions how Stereophile could have missed the opportunity to review this product.
After reading the post and subsequent responses I began to wonder how a product that was produced to celebrate the 100th anniversary of this company could have been ignored by all the audio rags. Just for a moment consider the technology employed in this particular player relative to the price...other firms that are using the same DAC's are receiving a wealth of attention, and their products are being celebrated by the audio rags - at 3 and 4 times the price of the Denon.
I don't own the Denon player, I've only heard it in 2 separate systems, but it's a damn good player...certainly the equal of players such as the Esoteric X-05 and Cary 306 (at least in my opinion), and yet no attention.
So to my question - How do the audio rags decide what products to review vs those that are overlooked?
Rick.
Follow Ups:
When I was writing for Listener , the review subjects were chosen by a negotiation between editor Art Dudley and myself. Usually I would ask for a specific component, sometimes he suggest one. His idea might be better than mine, or I might reject his suggestion with "I really have no interest in that thing." Manufacturers sometimes sent review samples unsolicited, so at least one of my reviews came about because the device was lying around Art's office. Sometimes we'd ask for a sample of component A and the manufacturer would offer component B instead since their only review sample was already on loan to another magazine.
One point that hasn't been mentioned is that with a few exceptions the writers at Stereophile , TAS , and elsewhere are part - timers who do the work mostly as a hobby. The real reward for the writing isn't the few hundred dollars they're paid for each review but the opportunity to play with cool gear. Thus, each writer's particular interests are a big factor in selecting what gets reviewed. For example, Art knew that I'd volunteer for just about any turntable that was offered to Listener .
> > The real reward for the writing isn't the few hundred dollars they're paid for each review but the opportunity to play with cool gear. < <
+1
Jim Austin
a
...HP asked me to do once.
An amplifier had been sitting in his famous garage full of equipment for about a year and he felt guilty since the manufacturer had begun calling, asking about it.
Yeah, and about that Roksan Xerxes X review...
Sorry Rob, it's been a few years since I brought that up, and the timing was just too right.
Thanks again for the head's up regarding the Punk Rock Janitors. I just listened to that CD again a few weeks ago!
It depends on how vendors suck up to the editorial staff.I say this, not out of spite, but of many years reading reviews and comparing products with what had been said in reviews and by whom.
Three of the high end manufacturers I visited professionally had absolutely ear splitting setups with some of the most expensive equipment around at the time.
Edits: 02/14/12
...jousting.
The company's champions fair and true joust for their products to be included in the magazine. I've tried archery competitions, witch drowning, guess the weight of the buboe, follow the Shrubber, pro-celebrity taunting, Aristotelean rhetoric and white rabbit fighting.
None of them worked as well as jousting.
-
Editor, Hi-Fi Plus magazine, Lun-duhnn, Ingerland, innit
and audio manufacturers as often as not sink.
"I've been following a thread over on Hi-Rez about the Denon DCD-A100 CD/SACD player, a recent post questions how Stereophile could have missed the opportunity to review this product."
Unless a magazine owns up to it, readers should be realistic. That is, "opportunity" should not be confused with responsibility.
Since I have not heard the player I may be missing your point. :^)
...products to review are selected based on my experience with a print publication.1. A reviewer hears a product at a show he wants to evaluate and write about - he runs it by the editor for approval.
2. A product has been getting a lot of buzz in audio circles, on newsgroups or wherever, so the editor requests one and asks a reviewer to evaluate it.
3. The manufacturer requests the magazine evaluate its new product and arranges to send one to a reviewer.
Because of all the new and updated products out there, in the thousands, magazines have to be rather selective in chosing products their readers will be interested in reading about.
Edits: 02/13/12
old established companies, who have a world-wide reputation and are admired by many reviewers for making outstanding gear that never (well, hardly everrrrrr) get reviewed in the US press. Is this because they never (....) request a review? Must be.
Audio reviews are only one way to market products. Some manufacturers rely on them, some do not.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Then, if Mu Fi can't fill all the available slots, they move on to other gear.
;D
.
> I've been following a thread over on Hi-Rez about the Denon DCD-A100
> CD/SACD player, a recent post questions how Stereophile could have missed
> the opportunity to review this product.
We did review the Denon 100th Anniversary phono cartridge and turntable.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
This in no way answers the question. Why bother asking or replying?
Hi John,
Yes, I read the review.
Having heard the Denon some time ago, and having found it to be so competent - even feeling it the equal of my beloved MCD500 ($6500) - I then worry about how many more great products I'm missing out on.
I have never been a believer that more money equates to better sound. I got into this hobby in 1974, turntables turned my crank, and I have too often listened to expensive gear that sounds cheap, and I have too often listened to cheap gear that sounded expensive.
Perhaps holding Stereophile and The Absolute Sound, as well as others accountable to inform us of products of this type is too much, but where do we music lovers turn??
Rick.
While I sometimes find myself frustrated at the absence of credible reviews of a product I'm interested in and can't easily compare (sound cards, anyone?), I think there are a lot of good resources out there. The Internet, for one. Checking out the forums is a lot of work, many audiophile reviews seem to have been made by guys who have only compared something to itself, so you have to plow through a lot of threads to get a sense of consensus. But in my experience it eventually does emerge. Asking a critic personally can also be a valuable, since he may be freer to express an opinion of a product that he's heard only casually than he would be in print, or on the basis of what colleagues say.
You may not hear about everything, but you should learn enough to decide what's worth a listen. Reviews are only a starting point, anyway -- in my experience, you don't really know if something will work for you until you try it at home. But they significantly improve the odds, particularly when you know that a reviewer's tastes are similar to your own.
Well Denon could start by asking the magazines to review their player. The other is for someone on staff to have heard it and felt that it was excellent and they request the unit from Denon or the distributor.
Some brands go under the radar because if most of the stuff that they make is deemed mediocre then one tends to put them on the ignore list - then when they do come out with some anniversary edition "this is better than the usual stuff we put out" few people are aware of it. They're busy reviewing stuff that is consistently superior.
Speaking personally I am rather tired of reading reviews of stuff that pretty much anyone can spend 5 minutes in their local shop auditioning. You could probably audition the mainstream usual suspect brands yourself at a local shop faster than waiting for your subscription to arrive in the mail.
Reviews are more helpful when they tell you about stuff that you might have to make trip to go audition.
> Speaking personally I am rather tired of reading reviews of stuff that pretty much anyone can spend 5 minutes in their local shop auditioning. < <
You don't get out much, do you? Meaning no disrespect. How much of America do you think has access to even one "local shop"? How many of those "local shops" do you think actually carry the stuff you're talking about.
Jim
I actually made the point that I am tired of readingthe mainstream stuff - the likes of B&W/Bryston. This is pretty much sold in every major city in North America. If you live in the sticks fine but if you are anywhere near an L.A. Seattle, NY, Boston you will be able to hear these in multiple locations.If you live in the middle of nowhere and you're going to buy unheard - you may as well buy a kit.
Granted I am not American but my localish shop on Vancouver Island (Soundhounds in Victoria) carries:
B&W (Entry all the way to the 800D)
Sonus Faber (entry line on up)
Audio Note (all the models from AX One to $30k AN Es)
Paradigm
Quad
Magnepan (full line)
Dynaudio (lower to mid line)
Meridian speakers (and systems)
Reference 3a
Harbeth full line
Cerwin Vega - the CLS 215 (maybe the others don't know).Not to mention the odd lines they bring in from time to time to see how they fair - some stay some get shooed out the door.
It's sad that such shops are disappearing. Still people should not be buying on the backs of reviews. I would hope they would be used for adding something to the auditioning list they may not have known about.
Edits: 02/15/12
I agree Jim Austin. I have noticed two trends (at least in my area). Either a dealer has only megabuck items on display, where I cannot audition the entry level hi end gear (say ARC - LS17,SP17, VS60, as opposed to Ref equipment on display hooked to Wilson and B&W)- or the other dealers have downsized drastically and have only minimal gear on display.
Much of it Home Theater or Audio gear that is a small step up from Best Buy.
I think the Audio Mags are doing the best they can with the changing times of Audio (computer, downloads etc...) However if I never heard the names of Magico, YG, Soulution, Baalabo, Focal (upper priced) and other high end Megabuck speakers and equipment it would not bother me in the least bit.
OK...but it's not like the Denon 100th Anniversary products weren't heavily advertised. Specific to this product it's more that the use of the AKM 32 bit DAC's were being used - these DAC's are coveted by many and so you would think there would be huge interest in a player selling for $2500.
Moving away from this product - how about the Luxman CD/SACD players?
I spent a great deal of time 2 years ago researching and auditioning the best I could find one box players. The list was very long and included the Ayre (A+?), the Marantz, the Mac MCD500, the Esoteric players etc - in the end I purchased the MCD500. Shortly thereafter I had the chance to hear the Lux D-06 and D-08...Um...better than all the others in every way, at least if music is important to you.
So where are the reviews in Stereophile and The Absolute Sound? The Ayre was given an A+ rating in one of these rags, and yet a group of listeners all preferred the Mac to the Ayre hands down.
I've never posted in the Critic's Corner before, but I just can't help but wonder how some products get overlooked in favour of others???
I wrote about the DU-50 last year. So, to that extent, I think your premise (which seems to be that some products' being overlooked evidences a hidden agenda) is faulty.
Furthermore, I have submitted a column that will feature the Luxman D-05 SACD/CD player, and the Good Lord willin' and the creek don't rise, it will see print sooner rather than later.
There is only so much space in the magazine and only so much time in a year. The space that I recently devoted to three under-$1000 network-ready CD Receivers (from TEAC, Marantz, and Denon) was space that could not be dedicated to Denon's $2500 anniversary model, which I got PR materials on by email, but was just too jammed up to pursue.
There is an element of either randomness or of serendipity in all this. As far as I know, the process is agenda-free--other than listening hard and evaluating fairly.
JM
Hi John,
No, I don't think there is a hidden agenda, I'm not looking for any voodoo, I just sincerely wanted to know how the selection process took place.
Purely from my own perspective, I was shocked when no audio magazine elected to do a full review of the Denon DCD A100 since, as I mentioned earlier, the DAC's in use are considered so esoteric and yet the player is selling for $2500.
This left me wondering how many other fine pieces are hanging out there that I and others will never hear about, yet Esoteric, Cary, Mac and so many others get their gear reviewed everytime they change the packing material.
If it's incumbent on the Manufacturer to seek out the reviews then shame on Denon (and any other manufacturer who misses the boat), but if reviewers themselves should be actively seeking out the "best" gear to review then I think the boat has been missed in a few cases I alone know of.
Whether the piece of gear I long for receives a reviewers thumbs up or not is no concern to me, I'll drive 500 miles to hear a piece of gear before I buy it...but many won't. Too many folks place a heavy emphasis on what the rags tell them is good within their fixed price range, and that's why I'm asking. When I read a thread like the one I just spoke of, and I have heard the piece of gear myself and know that it could have easily sold for twice it's price had it received glowing reviews in either of the magazines I mentioned, then I have concerns.
Anyway, I do appreciate your response.
Rick.
Thanks for sharing your perspective.
My perspective is a bit different.
I have never reviewed a piece of Cary gear; I can't recall having reviewed a piece of McIntosh gear, and I last reviewed a piece of Esoteric gear IIRC in 2003.
I don't think that there is favoritism in Stereophile's coverage, with the proviso that all such media are subject to what I have personally called "the tyranny of the new." Manufacturers such as Sugden, who have made basically the same amp for 25 years, I think do deserve special solicitude, and I have made efforts to highlight such products from time to time.
I don't think that it's a matter of "shame on Denon." I did note that their PR shop sends update emails quite often. I happened to be jammed up with things to write about already.
I also believe that things like: power supplies, analog stages, and even grounding schemes are as important (taken all together) than which off-the shelf DAC a manufacturer buys, which in any event is not likely to cost more than ten bucks.
As far as other fine pieces hanging out there goes, that is precisely why I attend pro audio events and shows, which is where I encountered the Bricasti DAC, and which is why Stereophile was the first US magazine to review it. A second product from a relatively new manufacturer. You may recall that JA saw fit to put it on the cover recently.
So, in my view there is no set process per se. Some times a manufacturer gets lucky (Bricasti); other times a manufacturer has a fine product that slips between the barstools. But as John Atkinson has said, it is not a magazine's job to become a substitute for a marketing plan (or words to that effect). A manufacturer with a great product who spends the time and money to cultivate a dealer base will get his product noticed. Even if only in the way that really counts: committed dealers recommending it to real customers.
Ciao,
John
Hi John,Excluding Stereophile for the moment, if I google any product I previously mentioned I will find more than one review for each. In the case of the Cary (a company I have a deep appreciation for) players I will find 3 or 4 reviews for near to every digital product they make or have made over the last many years.
If you take a peek in the Digital forum you'll find my opinion of the Cary CD500, which I became aware of via reviews found online.
So I targetted Stereophile and The Absolute Sound, only because I believe they would be most read here in North America, but there are many rags and sites that missed this one.
And thanks for reminding me of the Bricasti!!
Rick.
Edits: 02/13/12
My high school had a flea-powered "radio station," but at least it used real radio waves and not the wall wiring or the radiator pipes. I helped canvass record labels for promotional copies. Some major labels treated us like kings (gee, had I spirited away a few of those white-label LP promos with bottom-third tracklists, my my what they would be worth now, such as the original "Blood, Sweat, and Tears"), but--I digress. Some smaller labels said, yeah, in dreams. So we ended up with an odd assortment of music to play. Does anyone remember "The Crazy World of Arthur Brown"?
The same for audio companies and reviews. Years ago, precisely in response to complaints on AA's General Forum (before Critics was established), I asked readers to nominate products they believed were unfairly neglected. IIRC, I winnowed the list to 16 products, of which: EXACTLY ONE landed on my doorstep. The Sugden Class-A integrated amp, in fact.
One company was having it appeared both internet and phone trouble. Was that bad luck, or a sign they were circling the drain? I never had to take a stand on that, in that they never got back to me about product availability.
Another well-regarded company's response was: "We'll have to build you one. Call us in a month." I did. And the month after. And after the third try, I gave up. If an audio company can't send a unit to a reviewer for North America's oldest and largest specialty-audio magazines in 90 days, how on earth can I be confident that they are set up to give good customer service?
I get the idea that I am on the "poop list" of one particular US audio company, which is sad, because I love their stuff. Regarding another old-line US audio company, I don't think it is personal, they just would rather not have Stereophile write about their stuff. And then there's another company that is willing, but they apparently want to be exempt from the rules that generally apply.
OK: You are now Senior (and headed for the Soylent Green factory) Contributing Editor for a day. As between the company that can't build a unit and send it out in 90 days, the company that won't acknowledge your emails, and the company that wants to call the shots, AND a company that says, "Fine, we can ship tomorrow," which do you choose?
One excellent company that has only one review pair of its flagship loudspeaker hit a snag and could not deliver as promised. So, I phoned the National Sales Manager of a different excellent company and asked to cover a product that Stereophile had not yet reviewed. Their answer: "We can ship that Thursday." Thanks.
NB NB NB NB, this is not to disparage Denon. Every time I have asked D&M for product, they have come through. I simply did not ask in this case.
So, just like record labels, audio manufacturers. There is a spectrum. And in both cases, there is a small minority of companies whose business model is apparently to nurture the fan base to the exclusion of the media, and if that works for them, I am in no position to complain.
Ciao,
JM
I have a friend that claims Stereophile missed the boat by not reviewing his speakers. I've heard them many times and the truth of it is, they haven't missed much, in my opinion.
Does the maker have five real dealers?
JM
WHY can't you buy or borrow one?????????????????
Assuming that the resale value after review is 70%, this should abe affordable except for top-price products.
If you are careful with them, readers may well want to buy a tested unit and pay a premium for it.
> Assuming that the resale value after review is 70%, this should abe affordable
> except for top-price products.
This has been discussed before on this forum. The danger is that the review
could be criticized on the grounds that it was overly positive in order to drive
up the resale price.
In the case of the Denon 100th Anniversary player, we didn't request a
review sample.We did review two of Denon's 100th Anniversary products;
these have already been discontinued by the manufacturer, we were told
when we compiled the April issue's "Recommended Components" listing..
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
''This has been discussed before on this forum. The danger is that the review could be criticized on the grounds that it was overly positive in order to drive up the resale price''
How does borrowing a unit drive up the resale price? I thought you guys have unshakeable integrity. Most audiophiles are savvy enough not to pay over the odds for a used item.
> How does borrowing a unit drive up the resale price?It doesn't. But as was discussed in the older thread, people would accuse us
of giving a borrowed sample more praise than it deserved so that we could
then resell it for a bigger profit than would otherwise be the case.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Edits: 02/16/12
is a ridiculous line of logic.
There is always some kind of 'rationale' for not wanting to do something to break the mould.
> This is a ridiculous line of logic.No, it's what some think might happen if the magazine purchased review
samples. Again, this was discussed some time back on the Asylum. Did you
not read those earlier postings?> There is always some kind of 'rationale' for not wanting to do something to
> break the mould.Look. Your suggestion is not new. It is something that we have thought about
for a long time. On balance, we feel that having review samples on loan is
the optimal strategy for a magazine that publishes reviews. We are not alone
in this belief - other than Consumer Reports, all other magazines do likewise.And in any case, this is not relevant to the thread. As I pointed out earlier,
Denon didn't refuse to supply a review sample, which would require us
borrowing or purchasing a review sample, we didn't ask for a sample. As i
also pointed out to you, we _did_ review two other Denon 100th Anniversary
products, as well as a Denon receiver, so we haven't been ignoring the brand.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Edits: 02/19/12
Cuz I think it's really sad that these monster sized companies like Denon, that make some really awesome products for their own Japanese markets as well as those in the UK, don't send those same products to North America.
It can't be that they could not compete on a price vs performace scale...so what is it?
I wonder if any of the anniversary players would be left to buy if a review had given it due praise?
Audio magazines and the reviewers writing the articles have a huge influence on what is sought after and those products that are ignored. I would hope that most folks only use reviews as a reason to search out a product for their own review, but my point is that Stereophile and other audio mags are a source of info to get rolling with.
A quick look at a site like Hifido will give anyone good insight to products that we will never see, but are the cats meow for the markets they feed.
Anyway...that's my rant for this morning!
Rick.
Ne need to,. The issue is not that Denon would not send it for review, but
that we didn't request a sample. If we did, I am sure they would send it.
Still pondering whether we should or not.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
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