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RANT: ON
Thought I'd share this rather bizarre experience I had this week with Stereophile's Manufacturers' Showcase forum on the Stereophile website.
The forum invites manufacturers to "...post press releases and hot industry news..."
I had a press release I wanted to post, but before I did, I read the "Notice" post at the top of the forum which said in part:
The Manufacturers' Showcase is a section where manufacturers can post product news and announcements. We ask that manufacturers do not use this space as free advertising...
I found this rather confusing as a press release is quintessentially "advertising."
So I decided to review what had previously been posted in the forum, after which I concluded that mine should be ok. It was simple and straightforward. A single paragraph describing what the product was, what colors it was available in, how much it cost, and a couple of photos.
A bare bones press release if there ever was one.
Then, a couple days later, I receive an EMail informing me that my post had been deleted.
Why?
I was told that it had crossed the line into free advertising and was referred to the Notice post mentioned above.
I replied saying that I had read the Notice post and found it confusing. What is a press release if not the essence of "advertising"? It seemed that Stereophile had some sort of distinction between "advertising" and "advertising," but there was nothing clear in the Notice post as to just what that distinction was.
So I asked for clarification. What was it about my press release that caused it to cross the line? What was there about my post that distinguished it from say, the following example from Annandale Acoustics?
Modern, American Made Dynaco A-25 Inspired Loudspeaker Now Available
I was told that when an announcement is almost exclusively composed of just products and prices, it "looks like advertising."
So, the problem with my press release, what caused it to cross the line from "advertising" to "advertising," wasn't that it said too much, but rather it had said TOO LITTLE.
Apparently had I included a bunch of bloviating about the history and development of the product, thrown in the cliche phony "interview" quotes about how wonderful the product sounds and how ground breaking it was--in other words, had I gone from simply saying "Hey, we have a new product, this is what it is, this is what it costs, and this is what it looks like" to trying to "SELL" it--that would have been ok.
I pointed to two definitions for "advertise":
to announce publicly especially by a printed notice or a broadcast
and
to call public attention to especially by emphasizing desirable qualities so as to arouse a desire to buy or patronize
I'd reconciled the "advertising" vs "advertising" aspect of the Notice post by assuming that the former was acceptable and it was the latter that Stereophile was wanting to avoid.
I felt that my what it is/what it costs/what it looks like post was in keeping with the former, while the Annandale post (as well as many others in that forum) was more in keeping with the latter.
I was told that my point was appreciated. But instead of that point resulting in my post being treated fairly and allowed given all that had previously been allowed, I was told that it only served to consider getting rid of the Manufacturers' Showcase and Dealers' Open House forums entirely.
That would at least be fair to all as everything would then be gone. But for my post to serve as the sacrificial lamb while they think it over I think is decidedly unfair. Sort of an ex post facto bait and switch.
RANT: OFF
se
Follow Ups:
It's fleshed out in terms of content, uses full sentences with a subject and verb, has a few different paragraphs with some sort of logical flow from one to the next.Yours lists a series of technical attributes. More like a bare bones product introduction notice.
While both your counter example and yours are clearly marketing materials perhaps you could obtain a style book for writing press releases.
But apart from these two examples I don't read that forum, so I have no idea what they typically run.
Also, that was a very accommodating response you got from Sphile. It didn't sound like there is a particular axe to grind on their end.
Edits: 06/04/10
...which was my point.
My post wasn't deleted because it wasn't formatted like a traditional press release, it was deleted because it was considered "advertising," while apparently the Annandale post was not.
Had I included a whole lot of bloviating, the whole purpose of which is to play up the product in an attempt to make it seem even more appealing to the reader, i.e. trying to SELL it, then all would have been just fine.
But what fucking sense does that make if the intent is to prevent manufacturers from using the forum for free "advertising"?
While both your counter example and yours are clearly marketing materials perhaps you could obtain a style book for writing press releases.
I already know how to craft a traditional press release. And a more traditional press release is fine when it's intended to be sent to some sort of editorial entity that will subsequently publish something about the product.
But in this instance, the manufacturer is communicating directly to the reader. To use the traditional press release in a situation such as this just ends up looking sort of stupid.
Also, that was a very accommodating response you got from Sphile. It didn't sound like there is a particular axe to grind on their end.
Never said there were any axes being ground. Only that the reason given for deleting my post make absolutely no sense to me given what has been allowed to be posted in that forum (the Annandale press release being but one example).
se
Or, it is possible I (as a hypothetical editorial droid) could have looked at the sentence fragments, etc., and _unconsciously_ derived a negative impression of it.
Again, I don't go over there, but maybe it needs to be more clear whether those are product announcements or press releases, or to have some clarifying descriptor or adjusted guidelines.
I don't know. I see once in awhile you have trouble here with policies, too.
Just like here. You have a problem with that. It's your problem, not theirs.
Hi Steve.
Your argument seems to be based on the idea that a press release is the same thing as an ad. I don't see it that way. I see press releases and ads as being two different, though similar, things. While they both want to attract attention to a product, a press release is directed to members of the press and is often shared with the readership, announcing something that supposedly has some value and is thus newsworthy; a press release is meant to provide the basis of a news story. An advertisement is less concerned with news and is more concerned with commerce -- a less personal communication, made with the attempt to make a sale or strengthen a brand.
There may be some overlap between the two, which is why I told you I have to make judgment calls.
I can't remember the exact details of your post, but I do recall a short list of new products and their accompanying prices, which, to me, equals advertising. I don't recall any detailed info on the products, why we should want to know about them, what makes them interesting -- only model names and prices. Yes, that crosses the line into advertising, as I see it.
I'm sorry you were offended, hurt, or upset by my decision. You have every right to make another post in our forum adhering to our guidelines. If you have questions, you can ask me, and I'll try to help.
Your argument seems to be based on the idea that a press release is the same thing as an ad. I don't see it that way. I see press releases and ads as being two different, though similar, things.Both are advertising. Both are intended to make something known to others.
1: to make something known to : NOTIFY
2 a : to make publicly and generally known b : to announce publicly especially by printed notice or a broadcast c : to call public attention to especially by emphasizing desirable qualities so as to arouse a desire to buy or patronize : PROMOTE
So there's no arguing that a press release is advertising.
The only question is whether or not something is "advertising" as per 2b, or "advertising" as per 2c.
While they both want to attract attention to a product, a press release is directed to members of the press and is often shared with the readership, announcing something that supposedly has some value and is thus newsworthy; a press release is meant to provide the basis of a news story.
Yes, I'm aware of that (though I would argue that the typical press release is meant to BE the story which is why they typically contain phony "interview" quotes).
But the Manufacturers' Showcase, at least as advertised, is intended to be a direct conduit between the manufacturer and the public. Not something that gets filtered through an editor as is more typically the case.
And may I remind you that both Manufacturers' Showcase and Dealers' Open House explicitly invite manufacturers and dealers to post press releases .
An advertisement is less concerned with news and is more concerned with commerce -- a less personal communication, made with the attempt to make a sale or strengthen a brand.
And I would argue that a typical press release, of which the Annandale is a prime example, is ultimately MORE concerned with commerce (i.e. "selling") than something as simple and humble as mine. That "more personal communication" isn't just advertising, it's "marketing."
That's not to say that marketing is necessarily a bad thing. Only to illustrate that marketing is more concerned with commerce than my bare bones press release. And my decision to make it such bare bones was a deliberate one as I would prefer to contain the "marketing" side of things to my website.
I can't remember the exact details of your post, but I do recall a short list of new products and their accompanying prices, which, to me, equals advertising. I don't recall any detailed info on the products, why we should want to know about them, what makes them interesting -- only model names and prices. Yes, that crosses the line into advertising, as I see it.
I'm afraid your recollection has failed you.
No, it wasn't just a short list of new products and their accompanying prices. The entire first paragraph was a description of what the products were made of and how they were made, followed by a single sentence giving the color options.
No, it wasn't the most detailed in that it didn't fully explain a couple of things, but that was deliberate. I didn't want to load it down with a lot of what I would consider "marketing." I wanted it to be simple and straightforward. Because if what I wrote wasn't sufficient to interest someone enough to at least bother going to the website, then I doubt anything else I could have said would have been sufficient either.
If you would like to refresh your memory as to exactly what it was that I posted on Manufacturers' Showcase, you can see it here on Audio Asylum in the Industry News forum.
I'm sorry you were offended, hurt, or upset by my decision. You have every right to make another post in our forum adhering to our guidelines.
If I were to make another post, it would be exactly as the one that was deleted. Because if the Annandale press release is any example at all of adhering to your guidelines, I feel that my post was even more in keeping with the guidelines.
se
Edits: 06/04/10
I took a look at the link you provided. It looks like an info-mercial to me.
To make it look less so, I would remove any comments that describe how it sounds, how nice it looks, anything that contains a value judgement/statement. I would also eliminate 90% of the history, leaving just enough so that the uninitiated would come to understand that there was a previous version that has been updated and reintroduced. I would continue to include that it is American made and that sort of stuff. I think that is a plus, but it is not a value statement, as you can draw your own conclusions as to what that means.
I've not been a fan of Stereophile over the years, advertising issues being one of my beefs with them, but in this case I am siding with them.
I think with a little rewrite you should do fine.
"I've not been a fan of Stereophile over the years...". Well there goes your chances of ever getting a review down the drain.
Well, despite their claims to the contrary that is the reputation they somehow seem to have held over the last 2 decades. And it is one that I am not in a position to dispute, if anything my prior experience supports it. So, in a nutshell, yes.
I've not been a fan of Stereophile over the years, advertising issues being one of my beefs with them, but in this case I am siding with them.I think with a little rewrite you should do fine.
Um, Ralph, the link I posted WASN'T MY PRESS RELEASE. It was SOMEONE ELSE'S press release that WAS allowed to be posted on Stereophile's Manufacutruers' Showcase forum.
If you want to see MY press release, you can see it in the Industry News forum here on Audio Asylum.
The whole reason I posted the link to that other press release was to make my point that if that is an example of what IS allowed, then I can't for the life of me understand why mine was not.
se
Edits: 06/04/10
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/news/messages/330.html
nt
Not even the slightest semblance to a press release. You are on the wrong side of a blurry and subjective line, but on that side you are. Sorry for the dissenting opinion.
I love the look of your interconnects, and appreciate your avoidance of anything but purely objective performance parameters when you have described them before. What would be so hard about crafting a press release to get you on the other side of the blurry line?
Not even the slightest semblance to a press release.
Only in a purely structural sense. I mean, what is a press release but advertising?
You are on the wrong side of a blurry and subjective line, but on that side you are.
Blurry? No, if it were blurry, you would still be able to discern that there was something there. But what has been said has been nonsensical and contradictory.
I love the look of your interconnects, and appreciate your avoidance of anything but purely objective performance parameters when you have described them before. What would be so hard about crafting a press release to get you on the other side of the blurry line?
But that's the thing.
Anything MORE I could add to what I've already said could only serve to more effectively "sell" the the product to the reader. But "selling" the product is precisely what I was told was to be avoided.
Specifically, I was told that I could say I was releasing a new product, and why it's important, but don't try to sell it.
But what is telling people why it's important if not an attempt to SELL it?
Sure, simply telling people you have a product for sale is also "selling" it. But to go beyond that is to effectively "sell" it even more so.
It makes absolutely no sense to me. I'm told not to sell it, but the reason my post was deleted is because I wasn't selling it enough.
Stephen has used the words "advertise" and "sell," but without any particular meaning behind them that I'm able to discern.
se
By your reasoning, just about everything is a form of marketing. However, a press release has a specific definition. It is an announcement of something that is newsworthy, i.e., you've come up with something different, better, prettier. It doesn't focus on a product listing with price list.
By "blurry" I am describing exactly where your argument lies. A press release may be a form of marketing to a degree, but it is not purely advertising. It is "blurry" because press releases straddle the line between pure news announcement and advertising.
"Anything MORE I could add to what I've already said could only serve to more effectively "sell" the the product to the reader. But "selling" the product is precisely what I was told was to be avoided."
Don't just add more:you've got to cut the price list, then explain why an announcement of your product line at this time is newsworthy. If you are listing your products with a price list, then you are advertising, "placing an ad." This "placement" can occur at any time, over and over again, unchanged (until you change the prices!). A "press release" occurs once per media outlet; it announces something unique to the product and/or time, i.e., "SE has developed a new, never-before accomplished winding technology using braided yaks' hair as a dielectric."
By your reasoning, just about everything is a form of marketing. However, a press release has a specific definition. It is an announcement of something that is newsworthy, i.e., you've come up with something different, better, prettier. It doesn't focus on a product listing with price list.
But it WASN'T just a product listing with price list. That was Stephen's misrepresentation of it.
Go to the Industry News forum here on Audio Asylum. The exact same thing I posted at Stereophile is posted there.
Don't just add more:you've got to cut the price list...
Why? Others include prices in theirs and they haven't been deleted. What sort of press release about a product doesn't include information on pricing?
...then explain why an announcement of your product line at this time is newsworthy.
I did that in the title of the post: "New Cables from Q!"
If you are listing your products with a price list, then you are advertising, "placing an ad."
I didn't. Again, that was Stephen's misrepresentation of it.
A "press release" occurs once per media outlet; it announces something unique to the product and/or time, i.e., "SE has developed a new, never-before accomplished winding technology using braided yaks' hair as a dielectric."
Yes, I'm aware of that. Now go and read what I actually posted.
se
"But it WASN'T just a product listing with price list. That was Stephen's misrepresentation of it."
Sorry Steve, but there is nothing in your listing clearly points out something newsworthy, other than the price list.
"If you are listing your products with a price list, then you are advertising, "placing an ad." (RY)
I didn't. Again, that was Stephen's misrepresentation of it. (SE)"
Steve, you listed your product line with a price list. Nothing you can claim about anyone misrepresenting will change that. Here's your "press release:"
"Hand crafted, limited production analog interconnect and loudspeaker cables made from ultra-fine (165 x 46 gauge) pure copper Type 2 litz wire with cotton jacketing and configured in a self-shielding Milloit braid. Terminated with gold plated RCA or banana plugs, each fitted with custom paper/phenolic handles. Minimal, environmentally friendly packaging made from natural kraft paper.
Available in brown, golden yellow and natural unbleached cotton.
0.5M - $300
1.0M - $325
1.5M - $350
2.0M - $385
2.5M - $425
3.0M - $475
3.5M - $525
4.0M - $600
Please visit us at our new website."
I'm not sure what is newsworthy there. It reads like a description of a product with its price list. If something is new and notable, you should explain it, because the DOMINANT ASPECT OF YOUR POST IS THE PRICE LIST. How is it that you don't see that??
I'm not sure what is newsworthy there.
Perhaps the fact that they are a NEW PRODUCT?
It reads like a description of a product with its price list.
Yes, it describes what they are, how they're made, and what they're made with.
If something is new and notable, you should explain it...
What's new and notable is that it's a NEW PRODUCT. That's what a product press release is for. Announcing a NEW PRODUCT. And I included a description of what the product was, how it was made, and what it was made from.
And in case it escaped you attention, they're CABLES. How much can you really say about something as fundamentally simple as a CABLE?
And more to the point, what more could I have possibly said that wouldn't have served any other purpose than to have made it even MORE of an "advertisement" and to more effectively "sell" the reader on the product? Two things which I have been specifically told are to be AVOIDED.
These are the definitions of those two words that I understand to mean in this context:
advertise, 2c: to call public attention to especially by emphasizing desirable qualities so as to arouse a desire to buy or patronize
sell, 7c: to influence or induce to make a purchase
Am I losing my fucking mind here? Because it seems that the ONLY thing wrong with my post was that it DIDN'T do what I was specifically told it WASN'T SUPPOSED TO DO.
...because the DOMINANT ASPECT OF YOUR POST IS THE PRICE LIST.
Only because cables typically come in different lengths which have different pricing. In this case, eight standard lengths. So yeah, those eight lines of text did rather stand out.
se
"I'm not sure what is newsworthy there.(RY)
Perhaps the fact that they are a NEW PRODUCT? (SE)"
DId you notice at all that nowhere in the BODY of your post did it mention that these are new? You should be explicit about that in the body of the text. Otherwise it looks like an....advertisement.
"And in case it escaped you attention, they're CABLES. How much can you really say about something as fundamentally simple as a CABLE?"
Well Steve, I did notice! Yep, I'm that smart! But the "simple" part? Well, that may be your problem, because if there is nothing that sets these apart from any other cable, then there is nothing newsworthy about them. Maybe you need to try another tack: "These are a new product that offer nothing but the simplicity that a cable essentially is, wrapped in aesthetically pleasing clothes." THAT would be newsworthy (even though I believe you've been stating that since you first started selling them).
"And more to the point, what more could I have possibly said that wouldn't have served any other purpose than to have made it even MORE of an "advertisement" and to more effectively "sell" the reader on the product? Two things which I have been specifically told are to be AVOIDED."
I'll help you out. Here's the original you wrote:
"Hand crafted, limited production analog interconnect and loudspeaker cables made from ultra-fine (165 x 46 gauge) pure copper Type 2 litz wire with cotton jacketing and configured in a self-shielding Milloit braid. Terminated with gold plated RCA or banana plugs, each fitted with custom paper/phenolic handles. Minimal, environmentally friendly packaging made from natural kraft paper.
Available in brown, golden yellow and natural unbleached cotton.
0.5M - $300
1.0M - $325
1.5M - $350
2.0M - $385
2.5M - $425
3.0M - $475
3.5M - $525
4.0M - $600
Please visit us at our new website."
Here's a suggested new version:
"Q announces a new lineup of hand crafted, limited production analog interconnect and loudspeaker cables made from ultra-fine (165 x 46 gauge) pure copper Type 2 litz wire with cotton jacketing and configured in a self-shielding Milloit braid, and terminated with gold plated RCA or banana plugs, each fitted with custom paper/phenolic handles. As a commitment to sustaining our resources, we use minimal, environmentally friendly packaging made from natural kraft paper.
Interconnects are available in .5-meter increments from .5 meter through 4 meters, and are available in brown, golden yellow and natural unbleached cotton. Please visit our new website for more information."
You can try to figure out the differences yourself, but I'm guessing from this - "Am I losing my fucking mind here? Because it seems that the ONLY thing wrong with my post was that it DIDN'T do what I was specifically told it WASN'T SUPPOSED TO DO." - you won't allow yourself to.
Good luck Steve. I like what you do, and often what you say, but in this case you are burning way too much fuel and you're not going anywhere.
DId you notice at all that nowhere in the BODY of your post did it mention that these are new? You should be explicit about that in the body of the text. Otherwise it looks like an....advertisement.
Why? It would have been redundant. The TITLE of the post, the FIRST thing anyone would have read before actually reading the post, was "New Cables from Q!"
Why say the same thing in the body of the post that you've already said in the title of the post? What, someone's going to forget in the two seconds it takes for the post to come up?
Sure, if it was a press release intended to be printed on a piece of paper and then mailed or FAXed to the recipient that would make perfect sense. But this is an Internet forum post which uses a separate title field to tell readers what the post is about.
Well Steve, I did notice! Yep, I'm that smart! But the "simple" part? Well, that may be your problem, because if there is nothing that sets these apart from any other cable, then there is nothing newsworthy about them.
I'd already described what set them apart. If you're aware of someone making the same cable, please let me know.
Maybe you need to try another tack: "These are a new product that offer nothing but the simplicity that a cable essentially is, wrapped in aesthetically pleasing clothes."
So instead I should gush about how great they sound, how Dave Clark loved them, and how your life would be so much better if you owned them?
I don't see that getting any farther away from "advertising" and "selling."
You can try to figure out the differences yourself, but I'm guessing from this - "Am I losing my fucking mind here? Because it seems that the ONLY thing wrong with my post was that it DIDN'T do what I was specifically told it WASN'T SUPPOSED TO DO." - you won't allow yourself to.
The only meaningful difference I see is the lack of pricing information.
But clearly pricing information isn't what caused the post to be deleted as many other posts also include pricing information.
However you're right, I am burning too much fuel here. I've said more than enough for others to come to their own conclusions.
se
"Why say the same thing in the body of the post that you've already said in the title of the post? What, someone's going to forget in the two seconds it takes for the post to come up?"
Don't know much about marketing, do you? 'Net denizens are the worst offenders when it comes to teeny attention spans.
"I'd already described what set them apart. If you're aware of someone making the same cable, please let me know."
It takes particular words to make your point. You should describe your methods/materials/magic/whatever as "unique," "proprietary," "unlike anyone else's." These are modifiers that make sure someone understands that your product is different, as well as new, and thus newsworthy.
"So instead I should gush about how great they sound, how Dave Clark loved them, and how your life would be so much better if you owned them?
I don't see that getting any farther away from "advertising" and "selling.""
No, you shouldn't make claims that are unsupportable, you should make statements about why they are newsworthy (Dave likes lots of (good) things: that in itself is hardly newsworthy). Remember, you are supposed to be writing a news release, not ad copy.
"The only meaningful difference I see is the lack of pricing information."
Could be. Making it a significant difference, no?
"But clearly pricing information isn't what caused the post to be deleted as many other posts also include pricing information."
Yes, but your pricing information is the most visually important part of the post. I also notice that your website page varies from your "news release" only in that it contains a couple of buttons for ordering. Your page is a great piece of on-line selling. But it not usually the case that one could remove the "buy me" button from someone's on-line catalogue and convince people that what was left is a "news release."
Good luck, Steve. I'm just trying to help, but it isn't that important. For what it's worth, I'm far more interested in trying them now having looked at the cables on your site. My understanding of your design position is that the cable ought to add nothing, nor affect anything, in the transmission of the signal, and that it ought to be aesthetically pleasing to the senses. You have achieved the latter in my opinion without question, and the former waits only for me to sneak a pair past my wife's accounting eyeballs...;)
Specifically, I was told that I could say I was releasing a new product, and why it's important, but don't try to sell it.
Describe in more detail what you have there. The use of such small gauge wires is somewhat unusual.
Tell me what a Type 2 Litz is - what is the insulation on the actual wire (polyethylene?).
Tell me what a Milloit braid is and how it works - why is it self-shielding?
What are these paper/phenolic handles for?
How come I can't get spades on the speaker cables?
Regards,
Geoff
...how is that not ultimately trying to "sell" the cables even more than saying what little I did already was?
Describe in more detail what you have there. The use of such small gauge wires is somewhat unusual.
Tell me what a Type 2 Litz is - what is the insulation on the actual wire (polyethylene?).
Tell me what a Milloit braid is and how it works - why is it self-shielding?
What are these paper/phenolic handles for?
How come I can't get spades on the speaker cables?
That's all to be explained on the "details" on the website which I'm rather embarrassed to say still isn't finished. Waiting on some photography but should have it done by the weekend.
I didn't include it in the press release because it would have made it too drawn out. This is the Internet age where "More information..." is just a mouse click away.
And in this specific case, I don't see that it would have served any purpose than to constitute an even greater effort to "advertise" and to "sell."
se
ok, I'll look for that when you are finished.
I don't see that it would have served any purpose than to constitute an even greater effort to "advertise" and to "sell."
I understand. But since the brief "news" didn't work, you could try again.
Regards,
Geoff
ok, I'll look for that when you are finished.
Oh, well if you were actually interested in the answers to those questions instead of just using them as an example, just shoot me an EMail and I'll answer them.
I understand. But since the brief "news" didn't work, you could try again.
Given that Stephen's decision to delete my post was based on his mistaken "recollection" that it was nothing more than a product listing with prices, I'm not going to waste my time writing anything different.
se
nt
I didn't include it in the press release because it would have made it too drawn out. I do not think you are in any danger of doing that (except, perhaps, on this thread). A press release needs to contain enough information to describe the product(s) and, also, to provide answers to the predictable questions that the description may inspire in the reader.
Oh, well if you were actually interested in the answers to those questions instead of just using them as an example, just shoot me an EMail and I'll answer them. That's reasonable but there was so little information in your post that I do not think it inspired any questions, at least not from me when I saw it on other sites.
Given that Stephen's decision to delete my post was based on his mistaken "recollection" that it was nothing more than a product listing with prices, I'm not going to waste my time writing anything different. It does indeed look like a product listing or a price sheet page.
I do agree that the terminology of "advertisement" vs. "press release" is kind of mushy here but, as the recipient of an endless torrent of press releases, the ones that inspire my interest are more informative, communicative and/or evocative than your cursory listing. Perhaps you might have been able to "flesh out" the release if you had waited until you had the resources that you are developing for the website.
Kal
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