Audio Asylum Thread Printer

Get a view of an entire thread on one page

Critic's Corner

If that is the case, I wish him or them the best of luck.

72.87.79.26

In Reply to: RE: I don't want to start any rumours... posted by mkuller on February 06, 2008 at 12:50:40

My horseback estimate is that there are, worldwide, maximum 15,000 people for whom HP's writing is a gotta-havvit. Someone whose opinion I respect says I am over-estimating by 100%, the real number is closer to 7,500.

A stock-picking newsletter can make lots of money with 7,500 subscribers, because it is a one-man job and it just requires a good head for picking stocks. Someone who spends his day watching the numbers crawl past on the screen and who has a facility for writing can do it all himself. No layout, no graphic design other than a chart every now and then. No photos. And the newsletter proves its value by whether the picks make money.

Coming up with enough equipment-review content for even a newsletter, forget a magazine you can put out on a magazine rack, is a huge job for one person, or a job for several people. And once you add in recording reviews, well, you need a staff. And unless they want to write for free, that costs.

Somebody below made a snarky comment about my allusions to the Latin Mass. I think that comment betrayed a serious failure to comprehend the point I am making by invoking the Latin Mass--as well as wooden boats, and chess. For nearly 40 years, it was extremely difficult for the average Catholic to hear a Latin Mass--unless, like Mel Gibson, you have a private chapel on the grounds of your estate. NONETHELESS, a magazine devoted to the Latin Mass has a circulation far greater than TAS'. (Mutatis mutandis, Biblical Archeology Review, the readership of which seems to be mostly Protestant, has a circulation more than twice that of Stereophile.)

My point being that you have two pursuits that most people would think of as fringe-y, each actually more popular than high-end audio, judging by the circulations of the respective enthusiast magazines.

IMHO the potential audience for a new publishing venture with HP at the helm or as a figurehead is a strictly limited subset of the subscribers to the two existing major US print high-end audio magazines. When I was a teenager, I avidly subscribed first to Stereo Review, and then Audio. I actually subscribed to Popular Electronics before either of them. For me the idea of an "average" teenager subscribing to ANY new high-end audio print magazine is a off-base as the idea of a teenager raised in a non-religious home who never goes to church, subscribing to Latin Mass magazine.

Nobody is asking my advice, but, here it is anyway: don't waste any money trying to "convert" bad prospects. A little birdie once told me that by the time even the shouting was over, Fi magazine had spent about $635 to get each of the subscribers it had.

Ciao,

JM

Follow Ups:

I'd say you are underestimating... - mkuller 10:41:01 02/12/08 (3)
...regardless of Latin Mass or other esoteric publications you may be aware of or subscribe to.

> My horseback estimate is that there are, worldwide, maximum 15,000 people for whom HP's writing is a gotta-havvit.>

IMO, at least half of the current TAS distribution and perhaps more.
- TAS: ABC? Since when? - John Marks 19:36:11 02/12/08 (2)
  Hi-
  
  Not to make a tempest in a teapot, but, are TAS' circ numbers audited by ABC, and, if so, since when? Back when I was there, AMM mailed the issues more expensively, IMHO so as not to have to report to the Postal Service. If you tell little fibs, or white lies, it takes time for them to catch you, but when they do, it hurts. Kinda like collecting witholding from employees but not turning it over to the IRS, but I am sure no party to this conversation knows anything about such matters.
  
  As I was saying, before Amy Winehouse started yelling at me, I will spot you whatever circ number TAS claims, and give you half of it. But what I said was, gotta-havvit, by which I meant, although I know that you had no way of knowing, because Danica Patrick was murmuring smutty things in your ear, that they would pay anything within reason for the privilege, by which I meant not $12 renewals but rather $58 or even $90 subscriptions.
  
  It's still a rather slender reed to risk anything but f-you money on. IMHO.
  
  Cordially,
  
  JM
  - RE: TAS: ABC? Since when? - John Atkinson 03:58:40 02/13/08 (1)
    > are TAS' circ numbers audited by ABC?
    
    They were up for a while up to 2 years ago, but Absolute Multimedia was
    then censured by the ABC for submitting numbers that didn't meet the audit
    requirements. I can't remember, however, if the problem involved TAS's
    claimed circulation or TPV's or both. Absolute Multimedia resigned from
    ABC shortly afterward.
    
    Stereophile's claimed circulation is ABC-audited.
    
    John Atkinson
    Editor, Stereophile
    
    Edits: 02/13/08
    - Why am I not surprised? - Charles Hansen 08:25:43 02/13/08 (0)
      < < Absolute Multimedia was then censured by the ABC for submitting numbers that didn't meet the audit requirements > >
      
      Why am I not surprised...
      
      Mike Kuller, I think this is what John Marks was obliquely referring to. His estimate of 15,000 readers who would subscribe to a magazine run by HP is probably more than your estimate of half the *actual* circulation of TAS.
RE: If that is the case, I wish him or them the best of luck. - Wade Davis 17:14:24 02/10/08 (6)
The conservative estimate (7,500) is probably more accurate. I suspect there is a growing subscriber population or both publications that don't even know who JGH or HP are and what they accomplished.

However, I would disagree that HP's potential readership is limited to a subset of subscribers to current high end publications. I would give anything HP or JGH published a try, even though I haven't, nor have many of my audiophile friends, subscribed to any to high end publication since Listener ceased publishing.

While I had subscribed to both TAS and Stereophile since the early 80's, I, and many of my friends, simply lost interest in both publications in the late 90's. While there were a lot of reasons for this, one reason was they both became less interesting than they were in the 80's when they had a more hobbyist feel, e.g., reviews on "modded" equipment, reviews on equipment from little known manufacturers, occasional DIY articles, etc. Listener filled that void for awhile.

A second reason was that the reviewers, with a few important exceptions, lacked JGH's and HP's rigorous approach. Based on the reviews that were published when I was still a subscriber (and the occasional review I read at Borders), most reviewers have less knowledge of the equipment (from an engineering standpoint) than myself, and based on their recommendations, worse hearing.

As a consequence, there was/is no reason for me to subscribe to these publications. However, if HP or JGH started a new publication that was more like the old TAS or Stereophile (which, by their nature, have a much smaller audience), I would at least give it a try. I'd even give TAS and Stereophile a try if they had at least one reviewer who actually knew who Lynn Olson and Kevin Carter are and discussed their designs.
- I guess you missed... - Bill Leebens 21:52:09 02/23/08 (0)
  ...Art Dudley writing about Kevin's Lundahl-based MC stepup kit, coupla months back in S'phile.
  
  Cheers, Bill
- RE: DIY, kits, and modded gear reviews - Steven R. Rochlin 09:01:37 02/14/08 (0)
  Wade,
  
  Thanks for your posting and agree with you on the lacking of the 'hobbyist' side of things as many enjoyed decades ago. Listener was a great magazine and when Art sold it, he lost control and it went out of business shortly thereafter. This was indeed a very sad day for the high-end audio hobbyist.
  
  Your comments are precisely why i asked Joe Roberts to republish articles from Sound Practices magazine within Enjoy the Music.com (plus it is a very cool magazine). My dad taught me to solder at the rip ol' age of 5, and my first day job (was/am also a musician) when i was of age was working at Heathkit electronics. Over the past 12 years, Enjoy the Music.com has reviewed various kits and DIY projects including the recent LS3/5 kit, Bastanis speaker kit, our senior editor Dick Olsher has a speaker kit he designed, Hammer Dynamics Super 12... and am artile written by none other than Kondo-san with schematics so you can build the Ongaku....
  
  Mod articles include Denon 2900 modification, Bolder Cable modified Slim Devices Squeezebox 2, V-Caps mod, ModWright Instruments/Denon 3910 mod... and the factory modified JoLida JD 102B, Bottlehead Paramour ....
  
  Cables are another factor, and many know of the Max Rochlin memorial digital/video cable DIY project, which has been republished in print in Hi-Fi News magazine.
  
  The above is not to break my own arm to pat my back; the point is that i am ALWAYS open to publishing DIY projects, kits, tweaks, mods, etc. This includes having me or one of our writers cover DIY-type shows (check out the PA Tube Show, nyNOISE, and others on Enjoy the Music.com). If you (or anyone reading this) have a great mod or show please feel free to e-mail it to me for consideration.
  
  There are many facets to high-end audio and diversification is better than limited focus imho. Thanks everyone for your time and in the end what REALLY matters is that YOU...
  
  Enjoy the Music,
  
  Steven R. Rochlin
- You know, Wade, PFO does publish... - David W. Robinson 09:45:27 02/11/08 (3)
  ..."reviews on 'modded' equipment, reviews on equipment from little known manufacturers, occasional DIY articles, etc."
  
  And Lynn Olson has been associated with us from the very beginning (c. 1990). Whenever he's moved to write on things audio for PFO, we publish.
  
  You and your buddies are welcome to drop by any time.
  
  All the best,
  
  david
  
  David W. Robinson
  Editor, Positive Feedback Online
  - A Creative Forum for the Audio Arts (Open in New Window)
  - RE: You know, Wade, PFO does publish... - Wade Davis 19:06:28 02/14/08 (2)
    Hello David & Steven,
    I am an avid reader/site visitor of both PFO and ETM, as well as 6Moons. I was really referring to the print publications. I think the important thing both TAS and Stereophile need to consider is that many audiophile's interests progress over time. And this progression doesn't simply mean being able to afford more expensive equipment, but an increasing understanding of equipment design, a desire not to be limited by commercial offerings, etc. As a result, both publications, IMO, eventually lose the interest of seasoned audiophiles if they don't do more than review the same equipment from the same manufacturers year after year. Of course, no magazine can satisfy everyone so I am thankful publications like yours exist, as well designers like Nelson Pass who avidly support DIYers. Maybe one day either TAS or Stereophile will reconsider if only to distinguish itself more from the other.
    
    Edits: 02/14/08
    - It's true that you need to bring in the newbies... - David W. Robinson 20:56:19 02/14/08 (1)
      ...without losing the interest of the more mature in any social gathering. Otherwise, you lose one end...or the other.
      
      Maintaining a balance is hard to do, though...particularly when paper and ink as a medium are so costly to produce, and to distribute nowadays. One of the major blessings of the Internet is the massively reduced cost of publishing and the far greater reach for distributing one's content.
      
      In that regard, web-based publication represents a true paradigm shift (that all too often misused concept) in human history. All sorts of new possibilties open for creative work, well beyond those of the printing press. And the crushing economic burdens are wonderfully reduced. (The question of quality in the midst of the resultant tsunami of expression is quite a different matter, of course.)
      
      FWIW, I'm sure that both John Atkinson and Robert Harley feel significant pressure all the time. I certainly did back in the days of *Positive Feedback* as a print magazine (1990-2001).
      
      I don't envy them.
      
      All the best,
      
      david
      
      David W. Robinson
      Editor, Positive Feedback Online
      - Well said... - Steven R. Rochlin 09:29:03 02/15/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: It's true that you need to bring in the newbies... posted by David W. Robinson on February 14, 2008 at 20:56:19
        
        David,
        
        Could not have said it better.
        
        If i may add... TAS, Sphile and others do offer Internet versions of their print publication. This allows them to reach a wider audience without *some* of the constraints of printing/shipping. This diversification helps to mitigate the print-only costs (both financial and in readership reach).
        
        ----
        ----
        Wade,
        
        As for product (content) and business decisions, each adjusts accordingly to serve the market they feel best benefits their objectives (possibly as directed by those who hold the financial purse-strings). This is true in virtually all ongoing business ventures.
        
        As i can only speak for Enjoy the Music.com, the goal is to provide an enjoyable and educational site with plenty of diversification to serve as many aspects of the industry as possible including newbies, DIY'ers, and seasoned hobbyists/audiophiles. (this is a *major* oversimplification)
        
        Print magazines naturally pay their writers as does Enjoy the Music.com, while some online audiophile sites seek out those who will write at no cost. As for the quality of content plus experience from paid writers versus those who are free, we can each debate which may be best on a writer by writer basis (but lets us not go there, can-o-worms and all that). Regardless, the fact is paid writers do add to the costs of production for print publications and Enjoy the Music.com and must also be factored in.
        
        The above shows just a hint of the many facets at work for both print and online publications. So as to why the print guys do XXY and Internet does XYY versus...
        
        Wade, write to the magazine editor and let them know your feelings. Perhaps if enough people have the same desires as you and also write in, they will find a way to fulfil the requests on a regular basis. If a business does not fulfil your desires, go elsewhere. As an example, i prefer Heinz over Kraft ketchup so i buy Heinz.
        
        In a perfect world things would operate as I wish them to. -- ???
        
        The reverse side also has a reverse side. -- Japanese proverb
        
        Enjoy the Music,
        
        Steven R. Rochlin
i 'scribed to fi AND audio adventure - hifitommy 14:52:32 02/09/08 (0)
in hopes that a new hig quality mag could survive. i will likewise support harry's new venture if it materializes.

...regards...tr

Post a Followup:

FAQ

Post a Message!

Forgot Password?

Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
	Remember my Moniker & Password (What's this?) Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:

Message:	(Posts are subject to Content Rules)

Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:	Automagically notify you when someone responds.

To view your new posting or follow-up, click on the RELOAD or REFRESH button on your browser.