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To their credit it would appear that TAS has no intention of entering into a public mud-slinging match with SF in response to Dudley's article and the subsequent posts (here) by SF reviewers (including the editor).What's more TAS appears to have no interest in entering into altercations with the vocal proponents of the hang him high posse. Take Ayre's Charlie Hanson, he didn't pull his punches and even declared cancelling advertizing with the magazine, yet TAS just published a very flattering review of two Ayre pieces (by Sue Kraft).
Mind you I'm not naive enought to expect all representatives from SF and TAS to be getting along like kissing cousins at trade shows, etc., but I really could care less, I'd simple like to see a level of professionalism where it comes to the public face the hobby projects, be it the press corps or manufacturers, and for that matter, by hobbists. In that regard, again... Kudos to TAS.
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
Follow Ups:
`
...."no agenda".
"No brains."
Good one, Bruce....but there is the Karl Rove defense in play here....he can spell.
I shall now go back to blissfully languishing in my linguistic linguini. ;~)
To their credit it would appear that Stereophile has no intention of entering into a public mud-slinging match with posters in response to repeated accusations and subsequent posts (here) by very energetic conspiracy theorists.What's more Stereophile appears to have no interest in entering into altercations with the more vocal proponents of the hang him high posse. Take BJH, he didn't pull his punches and even declared fowl play when he wrongfully thought JA and Charles Hansen were talking about free cables when in fact they were talking about review samples. Yet JA responded kindly to BJH regarding some Myrtle blocks.
Mind you I'm not naive enough to expect all representatives from Stereophile to be getting along like kissing cousins with the more rabid posters. I'd simply like to see a level of professionalism when it comes to the public face the hobby projects, be it the press corps, manufacturers and for that matter the hobbists. In that regard, again... Kudos to Stereophile.
Stereophile ain't perfect but, IMO, is far and away the best audio mag in the US. I can hardly believe the abuse John Atkinson takes on this forum, but I'm glad his skin is thick enough that he continues to participate.Meanwhile, IMO and irrespective of the ethics lapse, TAS might be renamed POS. I've bought maybe 3 or 4 issues over the last five years. Most issues take all of 5 minutes at the news-stand to realize there ain't much of interest there. Sue Kraft, Fred Kaplan, and Shane Buettner are usually worth reading . . . oh, wait, 2 of 3 are gone!
and that is precisely what I expected. As for you assertion that Stereophile engaged in any form of mud-slinging with TAS in Stereophile or this forum, would you kindly point out exactly where that was? (Summarizations of actual events at CES don't count.)
While I confess have not managed to spend my usual under 8 minutes at the newstand with the latest issue of TAS yet, one can say in the meantime...WOW - no mention of Valin's sleazy behaviour eh? Imagine that - now we're getting somewhere. Brush it under the table, pretend it didn't happen, cover up for Valin.
Far far more likely the issue of TAS in question was put to bed long before this thread ever got started - which makes the original post here a complete waste.
Perhaps in the next issue of TAS then - brush it under the table, pretend it didn't happen, cover up for the now fully discredited Valin. We'll wait for the post here that provides more kudos to TAS then as well.
WOW - Sue Kraft did a review. No, two reviews did you say? Must have been very well-informed reviews. Probably heavy with insights on the technology Ayre has been working on. No, more likely it probably requests you vist the Ayre site for technical details. But I'm sure she conveyed a good sense of what she heard. Probably compared it to stuff from Edge would be my guess. Can't imagine Ayre will care either way.
Oh wait - one could say TAS provided sweet reviews as a sop to Ayre. Now we're talking! Payola through good reviews - meaning those reviews just cannot be trusted. That's what happens when a publication loses in its entirety what was already a low level of integrity.
...was out before my thread "Bye, Bye TAS" was posted down below.The the first public acknowledgment of the issue by TAS' owner Tom Martin was his weak and incomplete response to my post.
So I wouldn't expect anything in print about it until the next issue.
Then you will be able to see whether Martin/Harley publicly acknowledge the entire scope of the issue in print or continue to cover for Valin.
I know where I'd put my money...
when I visited him this past weekend. Short summary: he has tried to stay clear of those who have tried to bring him into the mess.
"Short summary: he has tried to stay clear of those who have tried to bring him into the mess."If HP is involved in practices of such questionable ethics, it is not others who have brought him into that mess.
(nt)
I know this may be difficult for you, feel free to be specific. Name(s) and magazine(s) por favor. Or is The Audio Critic and Peter Aczel the only reviewer you've got the brass to ever criticize?
...to scroll down and read my "Bye, Bye TAS" post afrom 3/4?
Yes, a long, well deserved vacation."It will be interesting watching the fall-out from this since it's no secret." Since it is no secret, so who is it?
You have virtually called me a liar in the past based upon measurements I've taken with my speakers and now you totally distort my comments about HP.The only connection HP has to the Valin cable affair is that he has been asked by more than one person as to what he thinks about the situation. Since he no longer owns the magazine, he has intentionally kept low key on voicing his opinion.
First and foremost, HP is a journalist. He earned quite a few awards long before starting TAS. Even before he worked for Newsday as an environmental reporter.
Hmmm, where do I start, pinhead? The entire month's argument hints that some high end, but not Stereophile magazine, kept equipment beyond the review period. Some (I love that line) have even hinted that they may have kept equipment in exchange for more favorable reviews. Why not just say what they really mean? Please tell me, what rag might these people be refering to? The Sensible Sound? I wasn't calling you in particular out. People here throw this kind of crap around all the time. But they are sure to stay within the gray area so as to protect their credibility. They make ascertions... only to use the old, I heard it from so and so or heard it from un named sources... People need to have the cojones to be a man and just finish what they started to say.Since you took it there, ye man with 6 foot headphones, we'll briefly discuss your speaker / room interactions. You are but the first audiophile / sound engineer / whatever, that I am personally aware of who claims to have + / - 2 Db from 200 Hz on down to 20 Hz, with no room tuning whatsoever. Either you have found a way to defeat the laws of physics or you are full of it. If you want to go on record as saying that by my saying this that I am somehow calling you a liar, do feel free to do so. It's the internet and you can say whatever you feel, to whomever you disagree with. But by putting words in my mouth by saying that I am accusing HP, JV or any of the other reviewers of TAS out, you are being a complete chump. It was not me who penned the article two months ago and subsequent responses on this thread.
You are but the first audiophile / sound engineer / whatever, that I am personally aware of who claims to have + / - 2 Db from 200 Hz on down to 20 HzPlease reread the last four times I corrected your misunderstanding. This makes five. This is your brain on drugs. Maybe one of these days you'll eventually figure out what I've said. Repeatedly. Over and over again. And yet you still can't remember jack.
Sorry, but IO do not sit and read each and every post. I usually read a few during a break at work.
I'll remember that the next time you claim I said something. Since you base such comments on your imagination rather than fact, I'll just ignore it.
You spun this:"If HP is involved in practices of such questionable ethics, it is not others who have brought him into that mess."
into something like this:
Since HP is involved in practices of such questionable ethics, it is not others who have brought him into that mess.
Which I did not write nor was it my intend to voice. As a subjectivist, you should be well aware of the subtle nuances of the written English language. BTW, it does look like a pretty mean rig rig and a fine room.
P.S. Hey, if neither one of us had an imagination, you wouldn't be busy punching out the code that I end up fixing. We also wouldn't have the dinero to afford this sick hobby of ours.
Hey, if neither one of us had an imagination, you wouldn't be busy punching out the code that I end up fixing.Fixing what code?
You: Occupation: Software engineer
We're more alike than you think.With my first job out of college, I was the IT department of a small company. We used a standard package, but I wrote countless modifications to meet our particular business needs. During this period, I supported my own development.
A dozen years later, I joined the developer of that package in tech support. When we found bugs in current code, we gave it back to development for correction. When it was found in older versions or in custom modifications, then I fixed it.
Fast forward another fifteen years to present, I now work in a sales capacity. I perform product demos (usually over the 'net) and give live product and industry presentations to user groups across the country. I also teach the programming certification course for our business partners and power users where among other things, I instruct others in the use of various debugging tools.
Three weeks ago, I was pressed back into coding service. I developed an interface from the original back end licensing software for the products I represent and the new one used by the $2B software firm who purchased our company a couple of years back. Once again, I support my own development!
"With my first job out of college, I was the IT department of a small company. We used a standard package, but I wrote countless modifications to meet our particular business needs. During this period, I supported my own development.A dozen years later, I joined the developer of that package in tech support. When we found bugs in current code, we gave it back to development for correction. When it was found in older versions or in custom modifications, then I fixed it.
Fast forward another fifteen years to present, I now work in a sales capacity.
"
And you refer to yourself as a SOFTWARE ENGINEER, I should guessed. Your commentary on so much stuff did not add up, Software engineering is one of the most mathematical involved endeavours in computing, your aversion for 'numbers' was odd for a software engineer.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
HowdyAfter working for decades in software engineering I still remember many professional software engineers stopping and gawking when they walked by our offices and asked if we were really talking about Singular Value Decompositions when we were saying SVDs. I don't think many software engineers use all that much math on a daily basis in the industry. They use some specific forms of math informally a lot (e.g. big and little O estimations), but most of them would have no idea what you are talking about when you mention Dedekind cuts or Stone spaces... Heck even numerical analysis isn't taught that thoroughly to undergraduates much anymore either, a lot of people stair at me blankly when I talk about Runge–Kutta methods or Jacobi rotations.
and the enjoyment of working out algorithms to achieve some goal.When I was young and stupid, however, I believed in Julian Hirsch and the value of all numbers. Obsessed with them. I could quote chapter and verse of distortion specs for quite a few receivers, amps, preamps, etc. I had my AR integrated amp measured by Dave O'Brien himself. Got the chart. As a result, I decided that I had to have some Crown gear. Why? Because they had "virtually unmeasurable distortion". Yep, that's what I want. Fortunately, the dealer talked me out of the dreadful sounding ICK preamp. The D-150 was a decent amp, but was hard on top and had no image width or depth. Very closed in. Maybe they couldn't measure it, but distortion free they were not. I learned that lesson when I was 17.
Numbers are great when they correlate to real world performance. I value the frequency measurements I've recently performed on three systems. With a forest of bass traps, the main one achieves a very flat response in the first four octaves. Measures good and sounds dead neutral. You'll definitely hear me preach neutrality.
You missed the point of my post i.e. you are NOT a software engineer in the traditional sense of the word nor to the best of my knowledge were you trained as a software engineer by extension did not train in the mathematics of software engineering. And you really ain't that old, at least not in comparison to me.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
You may choose to ignore the definition of a software engineer if you please. Specifically, I am an applications developer. Yes, I took many math related courses.So, how old are you? More importantly, what relevance does that have?
rw
Audio Hobbyman is trying to say that he was around when ENIAC was the industry standard. While not that old, I did work on some UNIVAC stuff while in school.
ENIAC certainly was the toast of the forties. Gee, I didn't realize that TAH had such seniority. Perhaps he knew Admiral Grace Hopper. :)
regarding the incorrect and ongoing fixation you have on the claim that my stats were flat to 20 hz. THEY'RE NOT !!!!!!!! NEVER SAID THEY WERE!!!!Regarding HP. as others have said, what you did was insinuate without cause.
You know, you can always ask a question and I'll happily answer it. :)
Dude, do two things. Lighten up and get over yourself. I've gotten on you a few times because you can come across as a bit of a prick at times to people. In my last post, I humbled myself to you and you choose to kick me in the teeth once more. That is either a sign of someone who is not a gentleman or someone who lives on one of the coasts. As far as me insinuating anything, if that is how you want to take it, please feel free to do so. I can assure you that was not my intent.Since you proabably live in a blue state, I have to ask you something. If you can grasp what the difference between is is, why can't you seem to grasp the meaning of if? Things were written back and forth by many here without directly naming names or the magazine. Do tell me why you did not jump on any of them? Because your buddy's name was not mentioned? I met the guy once. He was cordial, but dare I say a tad different. Not someone who I'd probably hang with. Regardless, audiophiles come in all shapes, sizes and colors. Take care and do enjoy that fine system.
You humbled yourself? How about just saying, "Sorry, E-man. Gee I really was mistaken about what you said about your speakers. Why I keep claiming you said flat to 20 hz on several occasions is beyond me. Also, I guess I should have asked you if you used any room treatments rather than just assuming that you didn't. Or checked your system description where I would have found the answer"Since you proabably live in a blue state...
Arkansas is a red state. Perhaps you are unaware of something about the posters here. Click the "A" beside my moniker. Only takes two seconds. There you would find the answer to this question. Click my systems and you would have found the answer to your erroneous assumption about a lack of room treatments.
Do tell me why you did not jump on any of them?
To the best of my knowledge, only YOU made completely unsupported insinuations directed towards an individual reviewer. I will readily acknowledge the contrary if you provide proof. For some reason, only YOU continue to rant (incorrectly) about what I've said about my system. FOUR TIMES !
Take care and do enjoy that fine system.
Thank you. I'd offer you a beer and a listen if that were possible. Then we could measure the U-1s together. :)
just do a search on "pinhead" and find this post. Maybe you understand pictures better than words.
Each corner has four 18" by 36" traps.
With four smaller ones in the room.
Here for the upteenth time is the actual measured response of the room . You'll note that:
20 hz is about 10 db down! Did you get it this time? :)
Man, you have way too much time on your hands.
Innuendo without substantiation is very bad form.
Robert, you obviously missed the word, "If." I accused nobody of anything for I have no first hand knowledge of these goings on by anyone or any magazine. Sheesh, people here have made accusations against unnamed others and an unnamed magazine, that we all seem to know (wink wink), and you say diddly. Instead of ranting on me, do question those people who do make such inuendos in the first place, to say who. This entire industry is shrouded by opinions hiding in the grey area of subjectivity, so I wouldn't doubt that it does go on. Heck, who are any of us kidding. If in the same situation as some of these very lucky writers, most of us would probably choose to hold on to some of this very fine equipment until the manufacturer showed up at our door with two burly piano movers.
Using "If" is what makes it an innuendo as opposed to an accusation."If" you didn't think there might be something to your post, why bother posting it?
I do get you about all the acusations that fly around here untethered to reality, and I'm not purposefully singling you out Ozzie. It's just that given the tenor of the thread, it wasn't difficult to project a conspiracy onto your post...
extremism in the defense of liberty is no crime..uh,,,how did that go?
nt
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.Barry Goldwater, acceptance speech as Republican candidate for President, 1963
But he wasn't speaking to situation ethics, either. The political waters were far different in 1963.
....was a class act, and an intellectually honest man. Quite a rarity at any time, especially in politics.
...you're paranoid doesn't mean someone's not out to get you."
R. Nixon
(nt)
....they both had extra-marital affairs, and have now publicly admitted them.
nt
Harry Pearson has nothing to do with the situation....*you* are now creating inferences of "questionable ethics" on his part....the old "if". This and other threads are identical to the story of how a camel was designed.Punchline....it started out as a horse, but was fashioned by committee. And always comes out differently than intended when others throw their own agenda into the mix.
is 2 months or so, generally.
going back to the gilmore speaker review, they said it was a work-in-progress. thats not exactly a rave. the mark of a good review is that it recognizes the good AND bad points of the product.i dont understand you guys that are sure there is a conspiracy. we can ALL go out and hear the products for the most part. sure, some live in more remote areas but still, for pricey products, they must be heard in person and preferably in your own listening environment.
if i lived in roadapple KY, i would have to be willing to pay shipping and restocking fees if i wasnt comfortable with keeping a component. those of us that do live in a city where most of what we might want is accessible pay the price of living in the city and its negative forces along with enjoying the conveniences associated with the urban setting.
we are not bound to believe everything we read.
...regards...tr
Huh, I am not bound to believe everything I read either. And I don't. But that's not the point. The point is that everything I read (most everything) in the way of reviews, no matter where I read them, is of a positive to rave review. City or no city, that's why I don't believe them. If someone lives in a big city and can go out and check the reviews with his own ears and his conclusion is that the reviews are pretty darn accurate, hey, that's great. Doesn't make the preponderance of reviews any less positive than they are (than they seem to be to me). I don't believe in conspiricy theories except for Kennedy in Dallas.
(nt)
all the knee-jerk reactionaries that cancel their subscriptions can stop wasting this space.youre right bjh-"Kudos to The Absolute Sound"
...regards...tr
Could someone explain to those of us who only occasionally read Stereophile or The Absolute Sound what is going on? Just curious.
That'll get you started. Gist of it is that it appears a TAS reviewer let some loaner cables (expensive ones at that) get into hands that sold them on audiogon. Ethical lapse.Somehow bjh, who has developed a pathological hatred of JA, has positioned this TAS problem in Stereophile's court. Read the threads: you decide!
There doesn't need to be any public mud-slinging but a simple acknowledgement that a serious miscalculation in judgement took place- the issue is now widely known- would signal that they took the issue seriously.
We are left assuming-at best-that they get how damaging this type of behaviour is to the integrity of the high end. Mistakes can be made-how you deal with them is an indicator of your character. Some things simply can't be adequately dealt with behind closed doors.
I agree with you wholeheartedly.It is apparent to me that Charlie Hanson probably does not give a rat's a** what TAS thinks of his company's products any longer based on the lack of integrity that TAS reflected in this matter. And, frankly, TAS reviewer opinions no longer hold credence, IMHO. Good on Charlie...I agreed with him and canceled my TAS subscription. Don't miss it a bit. The professional organization would have done the following out of respect for its customer base: (1) a public acknowledgement that this well-known incident (now) occurred; (2) an apology from the organization; and (3) what actions occurred to address the matter. TAS did none of the above.
Shame on them.
if a reviewer will steal cables and sell them, how can his equipment reviews be trusted? What about the fate of companies and their employees?
As for Charlie and Ayre, he and his products will stand on their own merits and do not need any help from TAS.
Yippee!
Cleaning up after the editor.
that bjh keeps flogging relentlessly is nothing more than a preference for one magazine over another... ridiculous ain't it?
I posted about how the $75,000 Chord that fell short of it's rated output by 475w should have been called to task of it's measured short comings and who came to JA defense but bjh....he called me something like an omnibutthead, I still don't know what it means...LOL
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