|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
71.231.36.75
In Reply to: RE: Does not make sense posted by dirtyvinyl on December 21, 2015 at 15:36:00
I'm glad you took the plunge and enjoy what you hear. BTW, based on my experience, bridging the two crossover sections internally does not necessarily sound better than using bi-wire jumpers, so just ignore any armchair quarterbacking.
Follow Ups:
Can you tell us under what circumstances you got better sound with eight extra connectors and longer pieces of wire than you did with an internal soldered connection? I am not discrediting your claim, but I would like to know more about it.
There may be important reasons for not wanting to make internal circuit modifications (those look to be expensive speakers), but how is SQ one of them?
Peace,
Tom E
Any modification, especially an adapter tends to alter the signal in some manner. Swapping-out a wiring scheme in one way or another often results in a particular sonic alteration of the signal, which can be selected or rejected based on personal subjective preferences for system tuning purposes.
Could you please address my initial request: describe for us what circumstances allowed you to determine that adding external jumpers to a speaker system was less intrusive than a soldered wire internally connecting the feeds to the crossovers? How did putting eight connectors and a foot or so of wire in the signal path make better sound? Surely a postulation of such import should be supported by some sort of evidence or at least subjective testimony. Did you experiment by adding even more connectors and wire to learn if the sound could be further improved?
We all know adding adapters or altering a wiring scheme alters the sound. Sometimes writing less says more, just as a simple signal path is better.
Peace,
Tom E
is if you were going to actually bi-wire the speakers, and if the speakers in question are of a type that actually sounds better biwired, with two separate sets of speaker cables running from the speaker to the amp.
To answer your original question as to how jumpers could possibly sound better than internally soldered wire, my answer would be they could not. However, there is a chance that the difference may be very small and sonically undetectable. There is also a chance, depending on the wire used, and/or how they are connected, that the jumpers may add a slight coloration to the sound that the listener likes.
Bi-wired speakers have a pair of internal hook-up wires (pos and neg) running to each of the two pairs of binding posts (i.e., 4 wires total). The cleanest way to accomplish a single-wire set up with this type of speaker is to connect both of the positive hook-up wires together and both of the negative hook-up wires together and then connect those connected wires to a single pair of binding posts, leaving the other pair of binding posts unconnected. Depending on the posts, this may require using ring connectors, push connectors or soldering. This is not rocket science or even that hard although I can understand why some would not want to resolder the internal hook-up wires to their binding posts.
On speakers that accommodate bi-wiring, there are usually two separate crossover boards that are sometimes physically separated so, while it is possible to jump from one crossover to the other and then use a single pair of hook-up wires to the binding posts, this may be difficult in cases where the boards are not next to each other, and may not be any better than using the leads that are already running from the boards to the binding posts. Also, by using the existing hook-up leads, there would be less risk of changing the voicing of the speaker or screwing up something on the crossover boards.
The biggest reason not to do it is voiding the warranty of a (new) product within its 5 year (or longer) warranty period.
Also to some people time is money. Certainly it would be a couple of hours or more to disassemble and mod the xover board. How the jumper was implemented and what wire/metal was used what solder and so on play a huge role.
I also believe that there would be sound differences in the different connection methods and a jumper on the xover board not necessarily being the best method for many reasons. I've done tech work for over 35 years in this hobby and engineering theory does not always "rule the day". I always "try and see" before stating something IS better than another. I also believe not just any jumper would do well as I stated above which was based on trying several.
ET
First of all, the question was directed at Duster, who stated his opinion that an internal jumper might not sound as good as external jumpers. I can almost accept that, but I asked him for specifics of the experiment he used to arrive at that conclusion.
If you read my post, you would have seen that I already made allowances for NOT doing an internal mod, such as not messing about with nice speakers. I'm not asking for reasons. I'm asking whether external connectors and wire usually sounds better than internal soldered.
It has been my experience that the shortest and simplest signal path is almost always the best sounding. I can't think of a time when adding extra connectors and wire has been beneficial. Therefore, it seems to me that a short, soldered internal jumper would probably sound better than hanging a bunch of expensive jewelry off the back of the speaker.
Provided that someone had the time and desire and balls to open up a speaker and solder a jumper rather than plugging in some expensive external jumpers, don't you believe the chances are good that it would sound better? If not, can you provide testimony based on your own experimentation to that effect? I really don't care how long you've been a tech. I've been at it 45 years, and I do not ever base a judgment of sonic quality on engineering theory alone. I only care whether you've ever experienced what you and Duster are claiming. You say there are "many reasons" why it wouldn't sound as good. I'm calling BS. Assuming the use of quality materials, I can't think of one.
Peace,
Tom E
Sorry but "seems to me" isn't proof of anything just merely speculation as was some of my post. But most important was my first paragraph which wasn't speculation and the OP confirmed that a subsequent post. I can't believe all your posts and emotion was based on "seems to me". One of of us is likely correct and neither of us knows. The issue is still not resolved.
ET
We all also have the right to respond to any post(s)
Unless you're able to answer my request, please don't bother responding again and wasting my time.
But you are correct about one thing: the issue is still not resolved.
That issue, to be clear for those who have not yet grasped it, is: under what circumstances did a set of external jumpers sound better than an internally soldered quality wire? Not looking for silly speculation or reasons to do one or the other method. I want to know if anyone has ever actually made that comparison and arrived at that conclusion, and how they did it. Duster implied that he has, but he doesn't seem interested in providing details about how he made his evaluation. Now a couple others have stated that it's possible. Although I have a bias toward what I believe is better, I'm not claiming that it should always be done one way or another. My mind is open, but not to bullshit.
Peace,
Tom E
You said "seems to me" in your post just above. Go back and see. So you had no evidence, just speculation. That was my point. I can't believe you didn't "get" that! My post was clear but evidently your mind is in the fog now. Also don't worry I won't post on this again. Have a good holiday.
ET
"The biggest reason not to do it is voiding the warranty of a (new) product within its 5 year (or longer) warranty period."
A worthy consideration given what those Opera speakers must have cost!
Dave
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: