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I just got some new speaker cables that need some hours to break in. The problem is that I now have tube equipment and don't want to just let the cables (and amp) cook for hours unattended. Is there a source for a cable cooker and is it an economical option? Thanks!
Follow Ups:
I would contact the cable mfg to find out what they recommend. I read on MIT Cables site about what they recommend for their cables and they don't recommend using cable burn in boxes. And then I was reading the two part interview with Bruce Brisson at Dagogo and he explained that they don't like certain types of cable burn in boxes that "use DC to bias up the voltage." Because they have capacitors in their boxes and they don't the caps destroyed. So you need to be careful if you have MIT Cables. www.dagogo.com/the-bruce-Brisson-interview-part-1. He also explains why some cables need burn in and why some don't. So, my suggestion is to contact the mfg and ask them. I personally just connect the cable and play music through the system at a comfortable level for a few days (100 hours or so) and that should be enough.
Dr. Blank....firstly, the multiplex signal of the audiodharma Cable Cooker is an AC signal, NOT a DC signal. Secondly, I spoke directly with a gent at MIT years ago about this issue (via e-mail), asking them to clarify their ambiguous statement on their website, and they did....NOTHING. The problem they had (and I'm presuming they actually had one) was with the short-lived Duo=Tech Cable Enhancer, which went out of production around 1990. Yes, 1990. And MIT still maintains this position.
Shortly after I went into production with the original Cable Cooker 2.0 in 2000, I purchased a used Duo=Tech and had my tech put it on the 'scope. He told me it had "an ugly combination of square waves"....from distant memory I think there were two. That and the fact that it had limited bandwidth. Our signal output had a very clean square wave with nice, sharp shoulders....far and away better than what the Duo=Tech could achieve. And subsequent versions (we're now in the 7th generation of circuitry) greatly improved on the original, with an output signal whose harmonics reach into the megahertz region.
But for real-time experience, the Luminator has the best record as he has conditioned more models of MIT than anyone. I also have a few customers that have owned their top-of-the-line cables. All have been conditioned successfully, without an iota of a problem. Unfortunately, all this experiential information has been ignored by the folks at MIT. The reasoning is likely what I call "not designed here"....so many designers think and feel that their product cannot be improved upon. Oh well....what else can I say or do to convince them?
Yeah, I know, a cable mfg cannot rely on someone else's anecdotal information, Mr. Brisson is very careful about that as he/they should. remember, Mr. Brisson's son is a patent attorney and they know that unless they do their own testing of a 3rd party product and see the long term effects, it's probably going on deaf ears. They have warranty periods that last a long time, so they would have to probably test every product with each cable burner in question and re-measure their cables after the initial burn-in and then re-measure after many years to see what long term effects there might be.
Obviously, the other potential problem is that what happens if someone accidentally crosses wires while being connected to a burn in box? What's his name, Murphy and his silly laws come into effect at some point in time. :-)
It's all about first understanding what's covered under the warranty period and what isn't and then doing what you feel most comfortable with. I personally just don't want to violate any mfg warranty on a product if I can, especially when i just plunked down several thousand on a cable. I might entertain using one after the warranty period is up to see if there is still a drastic improvement, but not until they give the thumbs up while under warranty.
....if you have any doubts (and you surely do), don't do it.
I guess. Also, my name isn't Dr. Blank, the moniker is drblank, not Dr. Blank, so don't use caps and periods as it wasn't intended that way. It's just a screen name because it's catchy. ;-)
It's all a blank to me, Mr. Blank....you just showed up and registered yesterday, with NO background information or music system information, and started instructing the rest of us, with long run-on sentences, on how we should be interacting with cable manufacturers and conditioning cables, a subject with which you even admit you have no experience.Other inmates who frequent AA, especially the Cable Asylum might find your pronouncements highly-suspect and troll-like. You're not the first gent to visit here, feel the need to instruct others, and save us from ourselves. Carry on, and let's see how you fare.
Edits: 06/10/15
Contact the cable mfg to see what their stance is on using a cable burn-in device.
That's about the most basic approach to figuring out if you should use a device to axcellerate conditioning a cable.
Ask the following questions.
1. Is the cable burn in box that you are planning on using approved during the warranty period?
2. Will it violate the warranty of the cable?
3. Will it lessen the lifespan of a cable that contains passive components/
4. Any recommended burn in device that is recommended?
5. Recommended burn-in practices that will provide the best results without violating the warranty or potentially lessening the lifespan of the cable or any passive components with regards to those specific types of cables.
That's about the best advice ANYONE can give to avoid confusion and to get the approval by the mfg that designed and built the product you are using.
Audiomaniac- Which cables are you getting conditioned? I look forward to your pre and post listening experience.
I own a cable conditioner and would not be without one. So far Audioquest, Morrows, Synergistic Research, Black Sands Audio, generic cords and cables have all benefitted from conditioned.
Even my headphone cables (Sennheiser 800) improved.
Not all cable manufactures condition their cables but many do and some do it for an extra fee.
I've been enjoying this discussion about cable burn-in. Never did I realize it was such a "hot" issue. I definitely believe in the validity of cables needing to season. It also seems normal that many manufacturers of high end cables recommend 100 or so hours to achieve some sort of settling down of the audio sound of their cable. In my situation, I probably spend about 10-15 hours a week listening to my gear which uses tubes. I don't want to leave my tube gear on for about 10 hours a day for 10 days to simply achieve a burned in cable to see if I like it or not. That is why I initially asked the question about cable burn-in devices here on this discussion board.Let me say that I GREATLY appreciate Alan helping me out with my cables. It is really a nice offer by someone who is obviously into this hobby of audio and is willing to help out someone much less knowledgeable like myself. Thank you Alan!
David, I don't want to say which cables I'm using because I don't really think it would add anything to the discussion and I want to keep my options open for returning the cables. I think what I am dealing with can happen with any cables depending upon system matching. I will say that the cables are not mega expensive cables. But they are extremely transparent and revealing in my system and a little on the hot side in the vocals and upper extremes. I have sent my cables to Alan for burn-in and will report back the results.
Edits: 06/12/15 06/12/15 06/12/15 06/12/15 06/12/15
David-
how do you like the Black Sands Audio products?
The Black Sands are fine. In my system the Synergistic Research power cords are special.
Concerning power cords, Alan Kafton has just come out with an adaptor to condition the ground wire of the power cord. I have ordered the adaptor and am looking forward to it's evaluation.
Hi, David....thanks for the kind mention. Just to clarify, the new adaptor conditions the Hot, Neutral, AND Ground conductors (and also importantly) and internal ground contacts (within the AC plugs) at the same time....never been done before. The ground pins of most AC connectors are fairly substantial in mass as well.
To Audiomaniac:
A suggestion. When you get your cables back put them in the system and play them for several hours a day for three days, only then start your critical listening.
Many opinions as to why it happens but most people at audio shows agree that on day three most systems sound better.
David....I just installed audiomaniac's cables on the HI-POWER Cooker, and as they are new, will give them 4 days of conditioning. I also e-mailed him regarding same, and advised at least one full day (or more) of playing music through the newly-conditioned cables so they may settle-in, before doing any critical listening.Since I'm only doing this in one session, rather than performing 2 or 3 Cooking-and-listening evaluations, I'm trusting the 4 days will be more than adequate. After settling-in, I have no doubt audiomaniac will hear improvement. We'll await his commentary in a couple of weeks.
Edits: 06/13/15 06/13/15
Yes, I'm going to give it a while after I get them back before I make any kind of conclusions.
...playing time did your new cables have, before you sent them to Alan? Moreover, were you able to listen to these cables, at all, pre-Cooking?
Back in 2003, when we first took receipt of a Cable Cooker, we had about a dozen identical 1-meter pairs of single-ended Kimber PBJ. Some had been used since 1993, others were new (both from the Ziplock older production, and some from the newer clamshell packaging).
Thus, we were able to compare treated versus untreated samples. We were also able to leave a given interconnect on for increments of 1-day, 2-days, 3-days, and so forth.
Back in 1986, I started with the Original Monster Cable, and Monster's IL-400. So if we do the math, I went about 17 years, before having access to the Cable Cooker. And that is too bad. Thanks to some of today's audiophiles, who have graciously located some of their old (> 20 years) cables, we regret that cable burn-in devices were not available, back in the 80s and 90s. We currently have been treating these 20-year-old cables, and all these years, we did not see their true potential, got only a small fraction of what they are capable of. Back in the early 90s, we loved the AQ Lapis, XLO Reference Type 1, Kimber 4TC. As much as we liked the untreated samples, the treated versions are significantly cleaner, less grainy and distorted.
Kudos for making the effort, taking the time, and encumbering the expense to get your new cables treated. You are light years ahead of those who haven't.
Not too long. But the top end was irritating and I knew that they would need some serious break-in time if they were going to have a chance in my system.
Priority mail.
Cool! My system has been way too quiet! I'll post a report after I've had a chance to run them in a little. Thanks!
Like I said in the previous messages, neither I or the interview by Mr. Brisson mentioned any specific brands of models that use DC. But i was just cautioning people to verify what the mfg has stipulated in their warranty because this is a POTENTIAL, warranty issue. You aren't MIT, or Transparent, or any other cable mfg that sells cables with these components and I don't think you should be speaking on behalf of the mfg in terms of what is and isn't covered in their mfg's warranty. Mr. Brisson or MIT's site doesn't specify what cable cookers are covered and what aren't. They just mention to avoid using them. I know that they probably haven't updated that portion of their website, since it's been there for a long time, and maybe MIT hasn't verified every product they make with every cable cooker product, because they probably don't have time to do so. Personally, I think each mfg of these types of products SHOULD mfg cable cookers and offer resellers of their products to use them, just like companies like Nordost, but unfortunately, I have no say so in that matter. If you are a MIT dealer, maybe that should be something you can bring up to them to encourage them to either make their device that's certified, or to maybe test their products and certify which cable cookers will work and be covered under warranty to avoid any confusion or apprehension.
Now, if you, being either the mfg of the cable cooker or the retail store that's offering to burn in cables for customers, you should either offer a warranty to the customer or at least let them know that they need to contact the mfg to verify that it's not going to violate their warranty, if the product is still under warranty. If the cable isn't under warranty, then the mfg doesn't care what happens to the cable. Right?
Now, in terms of whether the boxes you use work? I can only assume that you are telling us truthful accounts of your experience, and that's fine. I have no problem with you sharing that they work and you haven't had any products damaged as a result and that they don't use DC. That's great!!!! BUT, i am just pointing out what the consumer needs to do to validate that it won't violate their warranty and to find out what products the mfg will approve if they are used while under warranty or after the warranty period has experied. In your other messages, you didn't specify that they used AC instead of DC and thanks for the clarification because some of these cooker mfg don't get too much into specifics on their websites, or at the one's I've seen. So, knowing that the burners that use DC aren't to used is good knowledge we must all be aware of.
I do urge all customers to find out what's covered and not covered under warranty since there are at least one company, Nordost, that does make their own box that they supply the resellers of their cables. I wish they all have them, or at least when through some sort of certification of these 3rd party products to indicate which can be used without any problem and that won't violate a warranty.
Remember, we are spending hundreds and many times thousands or tens of thousands of dollars on cables and it would be VERY bad for someone to THINK it's OK to use a cable cooker and find out afterwards that it violates a warranty.
My colleagues and I have treated numerous MIT digital, line-level, video, power, and speaker cables on the audiodharma Cable Cooker, Nordost VIDAR, and Hagerman Fry products. Not one of these MIT products (and some are from the early 90s) has ever had any issues with these cable burn-in devices. Perhaps the old and long-discontinued Duo-Tech Cable Enhancer didn't like MIT products, but not the Cable Cooker, VIDAR, and Fry products.No amount of regular playing time comes close to what these cable burn-in devices do.
In Audio Asylum's review section, check out my reviews of MIT products. A cable burn-in device is required to unlock the MITs' potential. Yes, we've treated MIT's entry-level products, all the way to some of their Oracles. No matter what price level, the MITs won't fulfill their potential, unless and until you use a cable burn-in device.
The Audiophiles' DJ,
-Lummy The Loch Monster
Edits: 06/09/15
I mentioned what the MIT website mentioned and what Mr. Brisson responded regarding the cable burn-in debate in a Dagogo interview. As he mentioned in the interview, he mentions that only certain types of burn-in boxes does he have an issue with, he didn't mention any specific cable burn-in box, nor did he imply that all burn-boxes do what he said may/will damage components, so if you are having positive results with various burn-in boxes, then it's possible that they don't do what Mr. Brisson specifies as something that might damage the internal capacitors because you aren't using cable burn-in boxes that can cause damage. There are a variety of boxes on the market and they aren't all equal, so Mr. Brisson was just cautioning people with no specific mention of which boxes cause damage and which products don't.
I personally have not tried a cable burn-in box and I just simply let the cables burn in naturally. the only thing that I am personally careful of is doing something against the mfg's suggestions as it might void the warranty. Obviously, what someone experiences is their own experience and that's fine. But some of us are just a little nervous doing something that might void the warranty. For those that have MIT Cables or another brand that has passive components used in a similar manner, I would just caution owners to at least contact the mfg to find out what is covered under warranty and what isn't. If it doesn't violate the warranty and it damages the product with a 3rd party burn-in box, then you are covered, if not, then you aren't. It's always a buyer beware scenario when it comes to doing any sort of modification or using another product that might not tested by the mfg of the product being "burned-in", etc. So, I am just adding some information to give so that people can do what they feel they are most comfortable with. I would only do it if I got full support from the mfg of the cables and that they would warrant it if there was damage as a result, but if they won't, then I just wouldn't take the chances because these aren't inexpensive easily replaced products. So, please don't take this personally. I'm sure if you say you had great results, that's great, more power to you, I would just mention that people need to contact the mfg first to get their answer as to what they will warrant and what they won't. Every mfg has their own methodology of what they will cover and not cover and their own experiences, so always check with the mfg first. If you look at Nordost, they have their own cable burn-in boxes and that's what they recommend their customers to use with their local dealer. Every mfg handles this issue one way or another, so always check with them first.
Hey, Lummy chimed in here.
Since at least 1994, MIT have written, usually on the "2/2 Rule" printout (which I've shown on my reviews), that warning about cable burn-in devices. That almost certainly stemmed from the early-90s' Duo-Tech Cable Enhancer.Since then, I have not read or been made aware of any other device causing any anomalies with MIT products. If there are any incompatibilities, the burn-in device merely and simply does not pass signal. Thus, there is never any harm to the cables themselves.
Again, in my extensive experience, only Tara Labs' Power Screen powerline conditioners did not want to be Cooked.
People can choose to live in fear and ignorance. Or, they can gain experience, learn from others who do have experience. It's 20 years overdue, but MIT really need to strike their false, misleading, and fear-mongering anti-burn-in device blurb.
Yes, my colleagues and I have directly asked (not trolled) manufacturers about cable burn-in devices. Most are open-minded, but a few "don't believe" in such things. Look, if they have not tried a product such as the Nordost VIDAR, then they aren't entitled to an opinion.
On a regular basis, people send me their zipcord and patchcords so I can Cook them. Most people are amazed that the Cooked zipcord and patchcords outperform un-treated audiophile cables.
But ah, once these people see what the process does for zipcord and patchcords, they wise up, and get their audiophile cables treated. At least once a month, a new-to-the-process audiophile will e-mail me, saying that he had spent hundreds and thousands on anti-vibration tweaks. But his cables' trip to a burn-in device outperformed, at a fraction of the cost, all those pucks, cones, crystals, and other resonant effluvia.
Edits: 06/10/15
If you'd like to send them to me, I'll be happy to properly condition them. No doubt you'll enjoy them more. Feel free to PM me with any questions....I'm the manufacturer.
alan m. kafton
Alan,
I sent you an email via your website.
Thanks!
John
Nice to see Alan chime in for you John.
Yes! He's going to burn them in for me. Super nice of him!
I'll report back on how they sound when I get them back.
Keep me posted.
Alan Kafton is another source.
Hopefully, Lummy (luminator) will see this post. He has owned a cable cooker for many years now.
Thanks.
Yeah, the cables just sound kind of bright in my system. I have 45 days to try them out. I just wanted to give them a chance with getting hours on them and don't really want to run my equipment all day.
I believe there are break-in services available...either thru a cable manufacturer or private source. Either would require you to pack up the cables and ship them. In the past and especially with speaker cables, I've just played my system as usual letting the cables break-in naturally. Never had a situation where the cable sounded so bad it made the system unlistenable.
Give your local audio dealer a call they might have a cable cooker, you can just drop your cables off
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