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Related to the Belden 8402 IC thread. Jeff day is also enthusiastic about Western Electric WE16GA speaker wire part number KS13385L-1. Have any inmates heard this or know of a source of authentic stuff (no longer produced) or a modern clone?
Follow Ups:
I purchased some more WE AIW 16ga wire from eBay seller tajacobs and installed some short segments between the amplifier circuit board and the speaker binding posts. It's amazing that short wires can have such a significant positive effect on sound quality. I would recommend trying this tweak, especially with solid state amps.
Hi Rhing. I now have a full set of WE 16ga speaker cables (each for audio and video) IC's, digital ic two pc's and links for my NAD integrated amp. So I'll be implimenting your "short segment tweak" very soon. Thanks for sharing.
pixelphoto (Marvin)
Since the WE16GA is hard to come by except in very short runs has anyone tried the 14 gauge version?
Speaker Wire? I am as big a fan of vintage Western Electric, RCA, Stomberg Carlson, Altec electronics, ad infintum, as anybody. But given the quality of the copper, the guage, and twisted versus twin lead, speaker wire is pretty much speaker wire. For the life of me, I have NEVER heard much or any of a difference. (Apologies to those that paid big bucks and bought "music hose" and DID hear a differece from me or my salespersons long ago, trust me the markup wasn't that great) The best sounding speaker wire I have ever heard was made (coppled up) by me, and came from Japan, out of the now defunct Hitachi Color Picture Tube plant in Greenville SC that I worked at as leftovers from the original machine hookup in the 1990's. Belive you me it wasn't made to be "speaker wire". Oh, and I used Pomana banana plugs rather than spades on all connections.
Now that the 16ga WE wire on eBay is more or less gone has anyone considered using 14ga WE wire of the same era?
I just jumped on the bandwagon and purchased some.
I could not find it in this thread, has anyone used this wire in shotgun formation? Reasons "to" or "not to" configure in shotgun. Finally. What did you use to terminate, or did you use bare ends?
Thanks.
Hi dcktr, as to connectors, tis your choice, bare or connectors. I used banana plugs. I have not read here or at Jeff's Place (see link) of anyone building shotgun cables. By the way were did you buy your WE 16a wire?
pixelphoto (Marvin)
I did the ebay thing and purchased from seller tajacobs. Trying to compare the writing on the wire to that referenced in the Jeffs Place site, it looked like the same wire. If it is not the same wire then perhaps I have some new items to list on ebay!
dcktr, I bought the same from the same eBay seller as did many others after reading about it at Jeff's Place and in this thread. I checked eBay the other day and their ain't no more. So hold on to what you have. Also consider building ic's from it.
pixelphoto (Marvin)
Shun Mook is now making PC's, IC's and speaker cables using "vintage WE wire" for outrageous $$$$. Has anyone here made PC's or IC's using the subject cable of this thread? I'll be building a PC tomorrow. The speaker cables are staying in my system until I'm dead. Yeah, they are that good.
For the PC please let us know the geometry, connectors, etc. If you double the wires I think it is 13 GA.
I just completed building a six foot PC using the vintage WE 16GA wire. One 6/1/2' length per L and N plus 14 GA multi strand ground wire. No fancy geometry, I just twisted the wire approximately three times per 12". For ac connectors I sourced from Vintage Audio Lab (Valab) on eBay. (Valab US Type Rose Gold Plated Copper Carbon Housing Power Cord Male Plug ap0), (Valab Rose Gold Plated Copper Carbon Housing IEC Female Power Cord Plug ap1). After triple checking all connections I installed the carbon fiber covers with the steel screws. Going to shop for some stainless steel screws. I then attached a ac adapter and connected the cable to the refer until next Saturday. I'll then connect it to a source and hear what happens.As an aside earlier this morning I was visiting Positive Feedback Online and noticed one of the advertisers http://www.triodewirelabs.com/triodeweb/shop/audiophile-power-cords/digital-american-series/ pc was sporting the same Valab ac connectors.
See ya,
pixelphoto (Marvin)
Edits: 08/01/15
I built another PC using the Western Electric16GA NOS wire popularized by Jeff Day (http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/). This time I used a twisted pair per Hot and Neutral and twisted both of them together. I then wrapped a 14GA ground wire around the two twisted twisted pair at about one wrap every four inches. I took Duster's suggestion and wrapped Oatey FASTape (selling tape) around the bundle to secure the wire and to reduce resonance. That stuff is really easy to work with. And finally I dressed it in sky blue shrink tubing. Oops, one more construction detail. For ac connectors I again sourced from Vintage Audio Lab (Valab) on eBay. (Valab US Type Rose Gold Plated Copper Carbon Housing Power Cord Male Plug), (Valab Rose Gold Plated Copper Carbon Housing IEC Female Power Cord Plug).
Both pc's are working in synergy with the WE16GA speaker cables and Belden 8402 ic's. The sound from my system makes me happy. It's warm, big, dynamic, tuneful, foot tapping, clear, detailed and musical. What more could I ask for? Well...
Edits: 10/24/15
Well the PC I built using the WE vintage cable as of tonight has 288 hours on it. I have it connected to my little Qinpu A6000 MK2 intergrated amp. Its working in synergy with the WE vintage speaker cables and Beldon 8402 mic cable IC's. I'm extremely pleased with it. Yesterday it really began to shine. Bass has really tightened up and the sound overall is dynamic and musical. The sound of piano, bells, cymbals, triangle, drums and vocals are shockingly real depending on the quality of the recording. This is the best $83.88 I've spent in years.
I've got 4-5 hours on my WE wire now. It has improved, the metallic quality to the sound has gone away but it is still a little grey and I need to turn the volume up.Looking more closely at the original blog post I'm wondering if I have the right wire.
In the post Jeff says:The 'hot' wire in the twisted pair has black printing on one side... (the other ground wire has no printing)
The wire I bought is not in pairs just off of one spool so it all has printing.
Also what does the word twisted in "twisted pair" refer to?
Edits: 05/25/15 05/25/15
Hi Mortnets,
I saw the same remark by Jeff referencing the WE 16ga wire and did a double take. After rereading the blog I thought perhaps he was referring to the fact that he twisted two lengths of wire to make a pair for one speaker, + and -. I believe I purchased the same wire as you did from eBay (Jacobs). My wire now has over non stop 48 hrs on them. I've been burning them in using the ISOTek System Enhancer CD. As for me I've had to turn the volume down. I am absolutely pleased with what I'm hearing and it just gets better. So much better I posted my Clear Day shotgun cables for sell.
pixelphoto (Marvin)
Since I installed this wire I'm listening to more music and enjoying it more. So, I ordered more for my Video system. What a gem.
TWisted pair is simply 2 wires laid together in a spiral pattern.
If you are 5 feet between connections, un-twisting the wire will result in an additional few inches.
This is as opposed to 'twin lead' or parallel, like zip cord where 2 identical wires are bonded together at the edges and SHOULD be easy to separate.
Too much is never enough
I have a desktop pc system. Go shotgun on this cable or not? good for rca interconnects too? Thanks.
Go here, read and ask.
Go here, read and ask.
The mailman played nice today and delivered my WE16GA wire. I mounted some bananas to the wire and prettified them with some shrink wrap. Removed the Clearday shotgun wire from the audio system and installed them in the video system. Installed the WEGA16 wire in the audio system. Powered up and within minutes all I could say was what I said when I first heard the Belden 8402 microphone wire ic's, holly shit!
The sound is absolutely musical. The soundstage has expanded in all directions. Decay is extended. The sound is even more dynamic with gobs of detail. Vocals are so clear and natural. Triangles and bells are shockingly real. Kettle drums knock my walls down. The 1812 Overture with cannon blow the windows and the walls out. Appalachian Spring Time and the Grand Canyon Suite are breathtakingly gorgeous. It's taken about five years to get there but I do believe I have finaly found the sound that make my faulty heart beat true.
Does anyone know if WE16G stranded wire is the same as WE16GA? WE16G is here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/351403279783.
I got mine from:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/per-ft-Western-Electric-AIW-16g-cloth-STRANDED-RED-/351403279783
from ebay ad:
You are buying a one foot length of W/E AIW 16g cloth covered STRANDED wire...looks to have 25 strands of tinned wire...color is RED or see another item # (231552722320) for BLACK ...buy the length you want...probably from the 80s.. buyer pays postage..paypal, writing on side of wire says VW-1 --- CSA AWN1 A/8 90C 300V FT1 A.I.W. CORP
from Jeff Day blog:
black printing on one side that is a little hard to read, but I think it says 'VW-1 - - - CSA AWM 1 A/B 90C 300V FT1 A.I.W. CORP', which is spaced approximately every 7.25 inches along its length.
Note the 16g rather than 16ga in the link; must be a typo? Anyway I ordered the same as you did. If the USPS does their job I should have it on Sat.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/per-ft-Western-Electric-AIW-16g-cloth-STRANDED-RED-/351403279783
I've had the Belden 8402 cable in my system for over 350 hrs now and loving it. I'm patting myself on the back for making the move. I ordered the WE16GA last week from the same eBay seller as rhing and got my tweaker tools at the ready.
Glad you are enjoying the WE16GA AIW speaker wire. eBay seller tajacobs appears to be burning through the remaining stock quickly now that people are finding out how good this wire really is. It's too bad this product is no longer made.
Edits: 05/22/15
I have tried the Western Electric 16ga AIW speaker wire that Jeff Day wrote about. I purchased enough cable from eBay seller tajacobs to make a pair of 8 ft. cables. After about 10+ hours of playing music through these cables, the magic really comes through with a very large and deep soundstage, great timbral detail and a warm, balanced tone. Just as Jeff Day wrote, these cables provide the same goodness as the Belden 8402 interconnects. Buy this wire before it disappears since it is no longer in production.
Edits: 05/21/15
Rhing, your impressions were the last straw, I just ordered 20 feet from tajacobs for about $27 with shipping.
Although I'm pretty happy with my Woods Yardmaster extension cord speaker wire - at this price I can afford to satisfy my curiosity.
Remember that you need two lengths of cable per side, "+" and "-", so for a pair of 10 ft. cables, you need 40 ft. total.I can tell you compared to the Walmart Woods Patio Cable a.k.a. White Lightning Moonshine (WLM) speaker cables, these cables offer a similar tonal balance with a bit more warmth. The Western Electric cables are better in terms of revealing more timbre, In my system, the soundstage is slightly less forward without sacrificing any of the immediacy or timing that the WLM cables provide. If anything the image is more focused and the soundstage increased in size including depth. I really like the improvements with these cables along with the pair of the Belden 8402 interconnect cables I've installed. Both have added more flesh to the music.
I've tried these cables with my restored and modified Dynakit Stereo 35 tube amp and my recent DIY project, a Texas Instruments TPA3118-based Class D amp I purchased through a Group Buy on diyAudio.com. I've added CineMag CMLI-15/15B input transformers that transform the unbalanced RCA inputs into balanced inputs for the amplifier's differential inputs. With both amps, the presentation is very three dimensional.
Edits: 05/21/15
> > Remember that you need two lengths of cable per side, "+" and "-", so for a pair of 10 ft. cables, you need 40 ft. total.
Oops, $54 is still a great deal.
My Motto: "Measure once, buy twice"
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