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Folks, a few days ago got two PCs for my bedroom system from eBay. In short seller described them as power cables with "replica" (read fake) Oyaide plugs. I didn't have a problem with the fake plugs. I paid $110 for each of them (2 meters each).Yesterday, out of curiousity, I did a search on the seller, and found out that he was being dishonest in not too distant past with the customers advertising fakes as the real thing. So, I took one cord out of the system, and upon close examination noticed this writing on the jacket: "Audiopipe HWY 836 USA Standard 8 gauge Primary Wire PW8".
I went to Audiopipe's website, and found that wire. What was interesting, they never use the word copper in their description, even though they said it's OF.
I have 3 questions:
1. Are they safe to use?
2. What could the wire composition be?
3. Did I get duped?Thank you
Edits: 03/23/15Follow Ups:
then by definition you got duped.Don't feel bad I've paid $59 for power cords myself (albeit genuine Shunyata venom S) and still feel duped : )
Edits: 03/26/15
TheBrewmaster:
Are you saying the Shunyayta Venom S is a dog? What about it didn't you like? I was thinking about getting one of them based on the Asbolute Sound's rave review.
No it's fine. Go ahead and try one. I actually have 2 I believe. Well made cord, but I don't hear much difference. I was just making sarcastic commentary on power cords in general. Don't mind me :)
I suspect that better power cords, ICs, etc. may benefit cheaper equipment more than more expensive equipment. Meaning, if I were to pay, say $20k for an amplifier, then I would hope that it would be more immune from the effects of the cables used to connect it than, say, a $1k amplifier. Just a thought.
The mundane power wire is intended for 12 volt mobile audio environments, not an AC application, and the sonic signature of the AC connectors provide nothing like the sound of Oyaide.
I wouldn't plug it in with a 10 foot pole, much less give it a quick nod towards AC safety approval in this forum.
nnnn
Thanks for the input, Duster.
So, are you're saying it is an electrical fire hazard? Because as far as performance goes, to me it's OK.
It wouldn't be an ethical thing to say it's not a fire hazard.
Duster, one last question - does the hazard come from the wire or the plugs or the whole thing?
Because it's DC power cable and who knows if the insulation will stand up to 120V AC and for how long. Nothing rated on the image of the wire spool from the link below either.
Thanks. Going to read AC/DC for dummies :)
Got confirmation from three different sources.
The seller turns out to be a good sport, and is very accommodating..
Thanks to everybody for the input.
Yes, beware! So much JUNK coming out of china now...
The seller is based in Colorado Springs. He is a DIYer, and calls himself "Maze Audio". My wife, actually, ordered these things for the bedroom system, which I meticulously assemble basically for her, and I didn't pay much attention during that process. I'm very upset at myself.
if you used a CC, no problemo.
If you didn't use a CC, you'll still have eBay covering your back as
they prefer happy buyers over happy sellers.
Shit happens, no big deal, just a bit of a hassle.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Then the wire composition, being duped was in last place ;)
Actually, the most interesting part is the sound, which is very unbelievable, but won't go there.
-Since you refer to the sound, you apparently used them. With no mention of smoking or a burning smell, they appear to be "safe."-You have confirmed that they are copper; they are not aluminum.
-You state that: "Actually, the most interesting part is the sound, which is very unbelievable, but won't go there."
If this means that they sound decent or better, at $110 for a 2 meter, 8 ga cable, it does not appear that you were "duped" either.
Edits: 03/24/15
Let's see what our cable man Duster will say about the fire hazard.
Whether or not a power cord gets warm to the touch under normal operation is not the safety criteria to be judged in this case, since the power cord in question involves large gauge low-resistance conductors capable of a high current load. The important factor in this case is the dielectric (insulation material) must be capable of high voltage transients without resulting in a catastrophic fire event. The nature of a particular insulation material implemented for conductors when used for AC delivery must be rated for a very high voltage surge in order to be considered safe. It's negligent for a seller, as well as an end-user to choose questionable wire for an AC delivery application. If you do decide use it, an audiophile quality power distributor/line conditioner with proper surge protection would be advisable, but that recommendation does not mean folks should feel free to use a questionable power cord just because it's plugged into a surge protector.
my 2 cents
...to the seller. I did a lot of research the last three days, learned things that I never knew, and, most importantly, very interesting correspondence happened between me, the Audiopipe representative, my wife, and the seller :-)).
Man, I can't believe I got this far into it, but the result was rewarding, because now I can sleep better without those things in my home.
Holy shit, Duster, these days people have no pride and integrity. I don't want to get into the weeds, but that seller is a peace of work... Sometimes people just don't realize that we live in the Internet age...
There is just one thing that I still can't understand - the very decent performance of the cables.
Anyway, I really appreciate your help on this matter.
Did the Audiopipe representative advise that the wire should not be used for AC power cables?
I have to say it's a lousy company wit a lousy website. They got back to me 2 days after receiving my first email.
The guy never answered the question about the AC application, but he confirmed that the wire is CCA. He said they make copper too, but it has a "cpr" designation on it.
"It Is Tinned Copper, posted on March 24, 2015 at 05:08:56
Got confirmation from three different sources."
Since it is aluminum (copper-clad), so much for the 3 confirmations that it was tinned copper.
This evolved into a somewhat bizarre tale. It's a jungle out there. Or a maze.
First info was from two different Audiopipe distributors, and the seller, the CCA thing came yesterday from Audiopipe guy named David Thornton with Company's logo under his signature.
It is a cheap Chinese shit, and I think they're crooks. I jus want to forget about it as fast as I can.
Understood. There are plenty of good PC's available.
I may be able to steer you towards replacing the returned power cords for something better. Do you have a maximum price point for each power cord in mind? What make/model gear will the power cords be placed on?
Thanks again, Duster.
One cable should power up Audia Flight Three integrated (to the wall), the other one is for the Panamax 5300 conditioner with big-ass plasma, blu ray, CDP and cable box connected to it. Cables must be around 2 meters long, budget +/- $400.
I already, just in case, ordered Pangea 9 mk2 and Shunyata Venom HC cables, which are returnable. But my wife really hates the Pangea looks and it's very hard to work with. I've been thinking about the Signal cable for the Panamax, I just don't want them to be thinner than 10 ga.
See AA email.
I had no luck trying to find out what the insulation is made of. It looks like clear speaker wire insulation.
From Maze Audio's ad:
...
"8 Gauge AC Power Cord
Perfect for Power Amplifiers and other high amperage components. These cables will cleanly pass all of the power your amps need!" ...
Since the guy at Maze Audio seems to be forthcoming, you could ask him about the safety issue/customer feedback on this.
His Ebay feedback during the previous 12 months shows 544 positive and 1 negative (this was about shipping costs, not product quality). Though it is unknown what percentage of the 544 were the same PC you purchased.
Here's the wire manufacturer website's part on those particular power wires:
I asked him, and he said they never had any problems. I also looked at his feedback, lots of folks bought those particular cables (based on the price). So at this point I'm kind of confused.
You might solicit views here or elsewhere on what the symptoms of an "unsafe" PC would be - insulation warm/hot to the touch? etc.?
If they are in your bedroom system, they are presumably not used for extended periods unattended. I do not know the current draw for the amp, but if it is not monstrous it should be OK. Presumably not much draw in the other component.
Of course, all of the admonishments about 12V DC vs. 120V AC are correct. So far, with the information you have been given, if it were me and I liked the sound of them, and the cost/benefit was reasonable, I would use them in the bedroom system.
Thanks, Dave. It was intended for use on an Aidia Flight 3 integrated 75/125 into 8/4 (connected to the wall), and Panamax conditioner which has a 60 " plasma and blu Ray connected.
...like iPads, iPhones
1 - Maybe
2 - Aluminum
3 - Sorry, Yes
A fellow dupee.
HA
Thanks a lot, HA. This is very upsetting. Are you sure about the aluminum part?
I was hoping that it's a tinned copper. Shit.
That is probably cheap aluminum wire, you don't really have the luxury of knowing whether it's safe or not; you could test its polarities with a multimeter, but it's not like it's something UL listed and certified.
is an unusual regulatory organization.
UL approval is NOT given to specific manufacturers. It is given to specific design parameters, i.e. brand X can have a cable approved, but any one else who copies the approved design automatically falls under the UL approval. This actually discourages many manufacturers from seeking UL approval ( important for liability purposes) as they prefer not to have others riding their coat tails
At least that was what was told to me many years ago when asking a prominent manufacturer about using teflon for power cables
Almost NO power cords are UL listed whether from large companies you know and respect or little guys. UL listing costs a lot. I'm pretty sure PS Audio, Kimber, Shunyata, Richard Gray for instance are not.
E
T
...
The Venom 3
Kimber is UL rated
Kimber is the only one. When we were Kimber dealers over $10 years ago I don't think they were. I'd surely bet less than 10% of power cord manufacturers are UL listed. No big deal. I don't see it as an advantage just something that adds cost to the product.
E
T
Lots of junk coming out of HK and China. Buyer beware. Some of the metallurgy coming from these countries contains mixed metals with tin and nickel. Also if the cord is not built to UL/CSA standards its quality is unknown.
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