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In Reply to: RE: XLR VS RCA (my experience) posted by robss on January 31, 2015 at 10:57:37
The Sim stuff is fully dual mono so I'm not surprised at your results. I'll post results next week. I can hook you up with a guy who can usually get some MIT for trial...if serious of course;))
dave_b
Follow Ups:
How is dual mono and balanced related?
Can something be dual mono and NOT balanced?
Can something be balanced and NOT dual mono?
Too much is never enough
I believe there is balanced circuitry which is separate from whether or not the equipment design is fully balanced and complementary. You can shove XLR CIRCUITRY into any gear if you wish.
dave_b
I got a slightly different impression from some other answer, but YOUR answer is what jives with what I know. My impression is that the ENTIRE DESIGN is a PAIR of circuits operating as PLUS or MINUS each being fed from ONE LEG of the XLR.
The next question would be to address the Sonic Consequences of switching back and forth
Too much is never enough
Ultimately it's probably best to try and not bias my listening with theory and just let it flow. Over time I will know which sounds better...and that is all that matters!
dave_b
When it comes down to cables/cords, do not over-think, simply enjoy the music!
True
dave_b
The reason I brought that up was that I WAS CALLED on the balanced / single ended conversion issue.
My DAC outputs either, so I went with balanced.
My OLD integrated was true balanced but my new preamp is NOT. So, using the balanced I convert at the DAC to balanced, and at the preamp, BACK to single ended. Someone brought up the possible sonic consequences.
Just curious as to general opinions.
Too much is never enough
I have an email into Krell on this issue. Patrick will give me the skinny on this balanced/RCA issue;)
dave_b
I think the answer you might get would go something like this:
For LONG runs, advantage balanced. I don't know HOW long, maybe 12' or 15' UP?
For equipment with REAL balanced design, advantage balanced
Single ended to balanced, and BACK, conversions only potentially damage the sound.
If I understand correctly, a REAL balanced design should have about a 6db edge over the single ended version of the SAME piece.
For systems with NOISE problems, you might want to try balanced, if available.
Since all my runs are short, nothing is native balanced and I have no noise problems, I'm using all single ended, except from my DAC to preamp where I suspect I'm not really helping.
My amps have the additional advantage of a single ended loop OUT / IN so all I need is ONE run to the amp for my biamp setup. Loop in/out is done with a very short (18") single ended run.
Please post the 'official' reply ::
Too much is never enough
"If I understand correctly, a REAL balanced design should have about a 6db edge over the single ended version of the SAME piece."
This is due to most balanced signals also being differential, ie twice the amplitude. One benefit of impedance balancing is it allows differential noise coupled to the signal lines to appear as a common mode voltage at the receiver input. Receiver circuits of various flavors (such as op amps) are generally designed to reject common mode voltage on their inputs.
Nice point- Ugly.
What I'm starting to gather is that balanced does have more circuitry involved, especially true mirror imaged complementary fully balanced designs, which also happen to carry the noise in the signal through the entire circuit until it is cancelled out! Sounds like RCA May have a measurably higher noise/hum but does less harm to the signal in absolute terms. In most cases RCA would be potentially purer sounding with all harmonics intact and the xtra noise below audibility:))
dave_b
Audience cables/cords are a sonic match for Sim gear.
I believe you;))
dave_b
IMO, there is no real benefit of using XLR ICs, unless you require 10m long ICs or your components do not have RCA sockets.
For me it depends on the RCA or XLR electronics and the quality of the RCA or XLR ICs not whether it is RCA or XLR, which is how I hear it.
With RCA ICs, if the noise is well controlled then RCAs can/should sound better than XLR ICs. In many instances though noise is not well controlled but noise is well controlled then RCA ICs can/should sound better :)
Unfortunately, XLR electronics remove 2nd order harmonics as part of the XLR noise filtering/cancelling process, which our ears like, but leaves the 3rd order harmonics in place including the noise, which our ears do not like... :)
Even more so, if the Hot and Cold XLR electronics is not well matched then the noise filtering/cancelling process can be even stronger where even more 2nd, and even 3rd, order harmonics are removed. I guess that will provide a smoother, maybe warmer, sound :)
Now that is some useful stuff....you deserve an AA SPECIAL REWARD! All I have offer is my thanks however;(. I think maybe it's the 2nd order harmonic removal that I'm noticing!! Will give the cables a thorough run through;))
dave_b
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