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In Reply to: RE: No review posted by ahendler on July 01, 2014 at 21:32:17
I'm actually having, er, odd results just using the samples on a power cord. An AAer whose opinions I trust has been posting that it may be possible to use too much (or is it too many?).
Regardless this is very interesting, sort of a mystery material that seems like it may have the potential to improve systems if applied correctly and yet "correctly" may vary between systems. To me, this smacks of truth from what I think I know about home-audio systems.
At this point I'm all for a whole slew of people applying them to different systems in different ways then observing the results and sharing them with the rest of us. The more data we have the better.
Ultimately understanding is driven by correlated measurements and theory but their precursor is to gather as much experiential data as you can and to hopefully form a mental image of the scope and magnitude of the issues. Those insights help to judge what might be worth measuring and ultimately whether the quantative understanding you develop appears sufficient to account for the bulk of the observations.
Observing, by the way usually needs to be learnt. Our natural tendency is to prematurely form unquestioned opinions regarding causation and never test them. That's why they are called unquestioned... The ability to "blank one's mind" is well worth developing for those to whom it doesn't come naturally. Biases, opinions, prejudices and experience can all be valuable time savers but it's critical to properly apprehend the problem first.
Bottom line of this diatribe is that the valuable data is: What did you do and what came of it? The whys and wherefores can come later.
OK? Now, let's see that review...
Regards, Rick
Follow Ups:
Note: I've found that putting samples on power cords can sometimes improve things, but often has the opposite effect. The power cords position the devices in the right place with correct orientation, so they tend to be more reliable in their action.
"Note: I've found that putting samples on power cords can sometimes improve things, but often has the opposite effect."
OK... Unfortunately that appears to be the case with mine. Bummer. Does this foretell similar results with the 'real' ones?
One last item that may mean something to you is that it seemed to pass through several stages over an uncertain time-frame of maybe a few hours, a couple days at most. Initially it (the system with the samples on the power cord) sounded a little bright but with good detail and "promise" for lack of a better word. And indeed it did get better for a few hours but by a day or so became unlistenable. Is that sort of variation over time normal?
Tnx Rick
NOTE TO OTHER FORUM MEMBERS...
I wouldn't normally post this via our forum but I think there is probably enough general interest in these devices to justify doing so. Please accept my apology if seems inappropriate to you. R.
I've not seen the kind of change you mention. They tend to take an hour of two to stabilize, but after that they don't change much. I think the problem with them on power cords can be that they can be sensitive to varying conditions, so maybe they sound OK when there is a benign RF environment, but fall apart when conditions get worse. (just a guess..). But you're not the first to note that they don't always sound good on power cords. Perhaps you could email me a pic of the way they are set up - it's hard to know exactly how you have them.
I have posted on this before: the BD products need a break in time. In general a couple of hours at least. Curiously when it sounds horrible at first (bloated tubby bass)it breaks in to produce superior sound, at least IMHE.
Of course YMMV n FWIW
Hi Stu,
The cord has been connected for days with some run-time. The input voltage was applied continuously but during the Summer I've gotten into turning off the amplifiers when I'm not listening very much.
I'm just using a sample rigged onto a power cord and from what Bob P. says that has turned out to be an iffy indicator of the results from the real filters.
Best, Rick
To be honest, Bob and I have had differing opinions in the year or so I have been a dealer. Differing components, different tastes, different sound rooms all contribute to differences in sound preferences. That is norma and to be expected as Nothing is perfect and everyone is an expert on his particular tastes.
Still, Bob has shown a willingness to work with me and modify and experiment based on my own experiences which I communicate freely with him. Of course, he has rejected many of my suggestions but then has also incorporated a few. For an inventor I believe that shows remarkable open mindedness and it certainly means that the ego aspect is a bit more subdued in Bob than in some other designers I have had the opportunity to work with, a trait I value extremely highly.
The break in aspect is one such thing. I find I need a couple of hours on many BD products. Bob is puzzled and says he does not hear any such radical changes as I have experienced. I do have one advantage over Bob though, I run a little shop so my exposure to miscellaneous components is far greater than what Bob can experience.
Again YMMV and FWIW
Hi,
Curious how the MSA cords differ soundwise from Virtual Dynamics or the Luminous Mega-Lynx, which IIRC also use magnets. My system includes an Exactpower EP15A AC regenerator, and I was initially surprised (!) that the power cord from wall to the Exactpower had an easily heard effect on resulting sound of Arcam FMJ36 CD player, (ca. 1990) Merrill turntable and Gill Alana preamp plugged into it. Now using a Triode Wire 8+ on the Exactpower and a variety of power cords (Aargh!!) on the other components -- Omegra Mikro on CD player (that was a splurge...), and Mojo Enigma with Furutech FI-15 plugs on the preamp. Other power cords available include the WyWires (which, while good, can be a bit "midrange-y" with certain components), and a TELwire 14 ga (which was excellent with a Vacuum State FVP5, but reticent in dynamics with my other components.)
BTW, does the MSA cord need to be a goodly distance away from an MC step-up transformer?
The positive review by "Ozzyboy" has me interested. Do you think a Neo to the Exactpower +/- a "First" to preamp would be worthwhile?
Thanks and happy listening,
Harvey (in Los Angeles)
"I find I need a couple of hours on many BD products."
I hear you. I actually think mine sounded a little harsh at first then improved after a couple of hours to rather nice. But the next day, not so nice. Something along that line.
Peculiar. But those can be the most interesting sorts of things especially if some horrid deadline does not hang in the balance.
If I find anything interesting I'll let you guys know. I think my power amp. is the only piece of audio gear that uses that connector and a lot of my stuff is so old that it has fixed cords. I guess I could try it on my scope... Actually that might really be interesting. Anyway this is more fun than firecrackers and easier on my hearing, but I hear a bunch of my neighbors tuning theirs up for tomorrow as I peck.
Happy almost 4th, Rick
"The power cords position the devices in the right place with correct orientation, so they tend to be more reliable in their action."
Well... Maybe mine's in the wrong spot. It's about 7in. from the socket and since I didn't have ready access to sockets I just whacked open a cable and soldered it back together after routing through the holes. Copper washers were also not around so I used some Cu tape. Seemed likely to be close enough to get a feel for the critter in this application.
The system I have it in has tough access to the back so it's hard to comfortably tinker. It was suggested to let it run for while and it's been in place for a few days now so probably about time to do some careful listening then yard it out and see what the reverse delta sounds like. Naturally the whole cord changes but the two sounded similar prior to modification.
It IS fun to have the samples to play with however it goes and also helps out society by keeping us old folks from wandering in the street... BTW, out of curiousity do you have any plans to electrically characterize your products? It's a strange feeling to be tinkering with a proverbial black box sans data sheets!
Regards, Rick
Let's hope for the review.
"It's all fun and games until someone doesn't pick up on the sarcasm"
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