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108.73.176.103
Haha
Follow Ups:
In audio there is a fanatical fringe element that considers the very idea that different cables (especially expensive one) can make worthwhile sonic differences to be tantamount to practicing voodoo with pins and dolls. They're the type that report things like ... "I was telling my co-workers about you freaks and the crazy $$$ you spend and they just shake their heads!" ... Mind you you gotta wonder what the co-workers actually thing about their foaming at the mouth colleague but that's another matter.
So anyway they can't just rush in here arms waving, eyes bulging, and launch into attack mode (see Mission Statement), so they normally just start out with some innocent sarcastic comment, that sort of thing.
Yet like minded types pick up on the activity like a shark to a drop of blood 2km distance and next ya know the place is just swarming! Eventually the moderator has to intervene to settle the madness but that's when things get truly sad.
The moderator has to start somewhere so say he picks [hypothetically] pissmaster , then pissmaster will invariably start yelling, "WHAT, WHY ME??!! ... what about [hypothetically] selfyanker , see what he said yesterday?!".
And so it goes, sad and pathetic, like being forced to watch Dumbass The Movie on repeat with eyelids glued open ... and who wants that, Eh?
Hope that helps,
You're Welcome in advance.
;)
Never trust an Atom, they Make Up everything!
One day a friend demonstrated how swapping cables could improve sound. I had an open mind but was amazed at what cables could do for audio gear.
What blew my mind was a $100.00 duplex outlet. Yep, I drank the cool aid and am never going back! LOL
If you lived in the NW I would be pleased to host you a brewmaster would be most welcome in my home.
Some might view belittling success as contentious.
I wasn't belittling anyone. I thought it was kinda funny. I didn't realize anyone would take so much offense. People really have thin skins nowadays. Some folks need to chill out and learn to take a little joke now and then. Do I have to insert a little smiley face : ) at end of every little sarcastic post now? The seriousness of some people in the high end community never ceases to amaze me....
So you're passive aggressive or in denial. No problem either way but you made the first move as they say.
ET
We have the nearly useless exclamation point.
But what we really need is a sarcasm punctuation.
So when we write something in deadpan and want it taken as funny we can stop the folks with no sense of humor from freaking out.
Maybe some sort of glyph of Sc or H for humor or sarcasm
Anyway it is a problem. mainly for folks who cannot figure out when something is supposed to be funny.
Also I would say some folks make it way too hard to figure out it is supposed to be 'funny' (including me.)
So true, Elizabeth! We DO need a sarcasm mark! I used my normal Haha but I think some thought I was laughing at them. I was not laughing at anyone, I was just pointing out how perhaps we lose perspective sometimes on the big picture. I was in a particularly "sober" or realistic mood at the time. For a moment I had forgotten that the name of this forum contains the word "Asylum" in it! "S" (the S symbol is for sarcasm)! : )
And don't forget "T" for Troll.
like mine, the seriousness of something like audio cables on this site is fascinating. Some of the posts read like finding the right cables is a medical miracle. The right cables have value in an audio system but, as some kind of 'cure', sigh.
"It's all fun and games until someone doesn't pick up on the sarcasm"
Hi
i have just read a research saying that a sarcastic attitude means depression.
If this is true if you feel sarcastic maybe it means that the whole cable issue makes you depressed
I am serious. This is bad.
Often i feel the same myself lately.
One case has been cable cooking issue.
I asked about the principle behind because i do perceive some changes with new cables with hours of use.
Nobody has been able to explain the principles behind this effect.
This is very depressing to me and it makes me sarcastic about the all issue.
Like ... they do not know what they are talking about.
I think that when principles are clear life is better and easier.
My advice would be not spend too much.
Go for the so called giant killers that sometimes appear in this forum.
Or if you have time go DIY.
You will find a lot of recipes here also.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 03/23/14
"I thought it was kinda funny."
Your entire post was, "Haha". I knew it was kinda something.
"The seriousness of some people in the high end community never ceases to amaze me...."
Frankly, I didn't take your post seriously.
As a white bread audiophile, very little "electronics" experience....
This is where I come to LEARN from many inmates, who have much more knowledge than I....
The subjectively of our hobby is so all over the board...Cables being one of the lighting rod topics in our hobby...
Typically, IMHO, cables are the most rotated "components", (yes, I took the Transparent stance)....we are all looking to squeeze the most out of our investment, (system), finding synergy between gear, cables and how they affect the final product, what we are hearing in our homes...
So many inmates have been there, done that...this particular forum has been one of my stops, when I check into AA, I am big time lurker here...I typically post on the Planar forum...but when I was buying some 6 meter interconnects and my preamp Manufacturer, CJ CT-5, they recommend keeping main outs to, 2 meters or less....I was concerned with this...posted on this forum...attached the link to the cables I was looking at and my preamp...the consensus was I have nothing to worry about...so I pulled the trigger with much more of confidence, once the inmates chimed....
I really like my current system as it sits...but I do suffer from that nagging thought...what cables would be better for my system???? This haunts me much more than replacing gear...
One of my favorite things to do for the cable doubters, is switch out my digital cable for another....then ask them if they can hear the difference....I am batting 1000 in that arena...
thanks
Mark
wireless cables. Some folks talk about preamps disappearing but you're in for a treat when you hear cables that seemingly disappear!
Note: I've attached a pic of the latest pair of 1m RCA's by an up & coming manuf.
I'm amused that we have 3 Digital forums! Something for everyone! LOL!
We all need cables and cords, as it is a very important link, in our audiophile chain!
Personally I'm very thankful for a place to go when a problem/question arises concerning cabling. I consider myself very well versed on the subject of cables and there are MANY OTHERS on this forum who have forgotten more than I will ever know. To us on this forum, cables ARE
components and just as important as the electronics. I would rather hear what my systems can do instead of wonder what they are capable of.
Nice system. I used to own the 803 SIIs with SA cradle bases. My next speaker purchase that I thought was an upgrade, we'll....it wasn't. I'll bet the Pass amp really makes them sing. In my system they were very musical and great with rock.
Take some time to read this forum, regardless of how deep you travel down the rabbit hole there is still a lot you can learn here.
Thanks, I like the Matrix speakers, and just have never really felt the need to change. I've had them since they were new in the mid 90's. Maybe someday some new speakers will tickle my fancy...
What do you think about the Claytons? and the Arial 9's?
The Clayton's we're amazing with the 9's. Along with a pair of Lamm hybrids, the Clayton's were the most natural sounding SS amps I have heard in my system. Having 300 wpc, the Clayton's were ultimately more powerful than the 100 wpc Lamms, and could really kick the Aerials into gear. Oddly, I have just sold the Clayton's to try something new, that I do not have yet. I hope that is not a decision I end up regretting.
If you wish, forget about the esoteric aspect of wire and cabling. For those who seek basic help with troubleshooting, or simply want to know about general cable information, many folks appreciate the fact that there's a place on the web where there are others who care about fundamental issues (and high performance insights) that are happy to be of assistance. It's too bad that there are still some folks who seem to enjoy ridiculing specialty topics covered by the diversity of various Audio Asylum forums.
Duster
I think I used this forum once to ask about termination choices. But still.. an entire forum for cables? Surely I'm not the only one who thinks it's overkill?
... than there are others that don't recognize the mammoth importance of cable. Just as important as any other piece of equiptment. They make such a huge difference that surely you must me a neophite. Tweaker
Are you a neophyte to the English language?
Of course it should be you're, not your in the title of Tweaker's missive. Anyhow, I'm thinking that speakers are just a teeny little bit more important than cables in the grand scheme of things.
In addition, he used "than" for "then", "me" for "be" and spelled neophyte incorrectly. That is four errors in three sentences. It could be English is the second language, maybe just poorly educated.
I like to think he is in an excited hurry to return to cable listening.
The blatant arrogance and snobbery is not very becoming. If everyone felt as do you, this hobby is doomed....
"Mammoth importance"? I have compared cables and just realize that we are talking about minute differences, not mammoth. Nowhere is the law of diminishing returns as applicable as in high end cables. Why do some in this field insist on magnifying every little nuance.
Differance
There's even a forum in Audio Asylum where you can specifically complain about or make fun of Cable Asylum. You can visit Propeller Head Plaza via the link below. Knock yourself out.
Just try not to be a dick there and you'll be fine.
See link:
/
... you own a car don't you? Does that mean you engineered it?
... devotes as much or more verbiage to cables as anything else. Conflicted there?
It does? What do you think that means? For that matter, what do you think my original post means?
Oh, I'd say you haven't thought the subject through. And it's a much broader and more complex subject than you're prepared to admit. But rather than recognize that, you can just dismiss it out of hand, which would make more sense if you were using any old wire to connect your quite fine system. But you aren't.
Well, you asked.
Actually I was caught in a particularly "realistic" moment and was just making light of something that, when you stop and think about it, step outside of our little world here, is a little on the silly side. I enjoy good equipment and want it to sound its best, so now that I can afford it, I buy decent cables (but not exotic ones). But do I audition them? No I don't. I don't have the patience nor the time to obsess over something like cables. I buy cables only when they are on sale, because, to charge several hundred dollars for copper cables with a little silver plating on the connectors... it's a ripoff no matter how you slice it. It simply does not cost that much to manufacture cables! It's snake oil, actually. I try to do a little research before I buy in order to make an informed decision, (so as not to sabotage my expensive equipment investment with a bad choice -- I think of it more as insurance as much as anything) and then I go with it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there is a lot more room within my mind to produce imaginary differences about different cables than there is room within the physics of copper wire to sound differently. Again, I guess I could be wrong about that. But "physics is physics" I suppose. It's all good.
"But do I audition them? No I don't."
Well, that saves a lot of time and, except for speakers (which have a lot of environment and taste issues), has a certain amount of merit applied to the whole system. Most things sound pretty good these days.
On the other hand, for a variety of boring reasons, cables may matter more to your satisfaction than you think. If you're happy and contented, all is well. If you find yourself not listening a lot or tending to thrash through gear then consider considering cables. It took my dealer practically tying them in a noose about my neck before I gave in and actually paid any attention to them. But he was right and I've hardly touched my system since tinkering with the cables... it now satisfies.
I know, it doesn't seem likely, but they really can be the last significant issue and being an electronics guy I built most of mine from stuff laying around for pennys. It isn't magic. I do think it's unfortunate that many cable manufacturers now seem intent on pricing themselves out of the high-value market but based on posts here that's the right thing to do since price is the only metric most folks seem to comprehend.
Blow a rainy weekend sometime and borrow a variety of cables and just try them to see what the deltas are like and if they matter to you. If nothing else you will probably have some fun and gain some insights. It's not onerous to do especially if you have ready access to the back of your gear...
Rick
I hear you. Good post. I've actually compared some cables (I have a few laying around here) and I have to say that I just didn't hear as much of a difference as some people seem to mention. Can different windings of similarly high quality copper sound different? Probably. But to magnify the minute differences into something so huge is misplaced, in my opinion. Just my opinion, which you'll agree I am allowed to have.One last little thing. Your quote "If you find yourself not listening a lot or tending to thrash through gear..."
I call that OCD. I try to avoid it. As much as possible, anyway. But admittedly that's not so easy in this hobby.... happy listening to all.
Edits: 03/22/14
I have a hypothesis (somewhat in line with my experience) that better equipment, which typically costs more, drives the cables better and therefore the sonic differences among cables diminish. Many of us cannot afford equipment which is oblivious to cables, so we get the best sonic value by combining appropriate cables with the other hardware.
But I figure it's rather more like links in a chain. The weakest link is still where the chain breaks down, even if the other links are unbreakable on their own. The question is to what extent high quality copper wire varies in "link strength" i.e. are there truly "weak" cables versus are there truly "strong" sounding cables. Obviously a polarizing topic with varying opinions. For one side, however, they can offer very little measurable proof to support their opinions. So here we are. Lest this trigger another round of arguments, let me re-state my personal opinion: Yes, cables impact the sound and can sound differently. But no, the difference is not huge, it's rather exaggerated by many.
I must disagree with the premise that sonic differences among cables diminish as one climbs the high-end audio ladder.
On the contrary, the high performance potential of hi-end cables diminish when placed on mid-fi gear (casting pearls before swine is too strong a term so I won't use it here...).
I was trying to hypothesize why some people do not hear differences which seem large to me. But I can say that I have had components which are less sensitive to cables than others.
.
.
----------
Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
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