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I recently received a SW Crescendo-II I/C cable. Before purchasing, the dealer asked whether I prefer the type of connectors with which Virtuoso cables are terminated or thinner metallic types, which provide more space for connection to amplifier input terminals. I chose the latter type of connectors.
The cables sound excellent but one of terminations connected to the CDP frequently gets loose (through superficially the connection is firm) and the left channel gets "out".
The dealer told me before that connectors do not affect the sound (when I asked him whether he could terminate the cables with NextGens or Furutech connectors).
I believe one of the reasons is that the cables are thick and heavy and the contact inside the thin lead to which the connector is mounted somehow gets loose under the cable's weight. This usually happens when the amp and the CDP are placed in neighboring tiers of the rack but this loss of signal disappears when the amp is placed on the first tier and the CDP on the third tier fo the rack, or vice versa. These cables probably should not be bent or their bending should be reduced to minimum.
I am also wondering whether I should change the stock connectors for NextGens or Furutech (though the former ones also look slim) to improve reliability and sonics.
I will appreciate all comments and opinions.
Follow Ups:
Switch cables L to R to determine if it is in fact the cable. Could be the female RCA on the player.
My tuner has an RCA that does the same thing. That's the downside to the Audioquest cables with the battery pack hanging off them. My solution is to place a small block of wood (a Cardas cable block) under the end of the cable to keep it more horizontal.
I suspect its the way the female RCA is mounted. If the receiving contact is bottom-oriented, the male hot pin will tend to bend away from it.
The RCA really is an elderly, miserable cheap connector - not withstanding the efforts of WBT and a few others - equaled only in microscopic metal-to-metal contact surface area by F-connectors...
"UL has nothing to do with a line-level audio interface. It's not a dangerous safety issue, so there's no certain standard of measurement under UL code or otherwise exists for rca jacks nor rca plugs for that matter"So you are saying there is no UL standard for RCA connections? Is there an industry standard for RCA connectors? I mean in terms of dimensions of course, not in terms of materials...
I would expect additional movement and additional weight causing sagging would ultimately defeat a broken/compromised solder joint. It seems more probable the weight of the cable is distorting the shape of the rca receptacle ausing a disconnect. Why does the cable need to be that heavy I wonder?
I suppose trying something like cable dampers that keep the first couple of inches of cable straight might help, but not if the problem is in the RCA receptacle of the CDP. The blocks suggested by the last poster may help with that.
Edits: 06/05/12
You wrote: "Why does the cable need to be that heavy I wonder?"
It's just hype, I believe. The lead-outs of the cable to which RCA connectors are mounted are thin, so the thickness of the cable is in insulation materials. I don't sea the reasons why these cables are made so thick.
Now the signal is OK as I placed the amp on the upper tier and the CDP on the third tier of the rack, thus making the cable route as straight as possible.
If not placed at the very top of the list, a major aspect of commercial and DIY audiophile cable design is the process of selecting specific connectors based on synergy/sonic preferences when matched with particular cables. I've never heard any cable that sounds the same when terminated with different connectors. Even the use of different solders tend to make a notable difference.
The description of your intermittent loose connection sounds like the weight of the cable might be bending the connector in a manner that pulls the center pin away from the signal contact within the rca jack. Solutions may involve upgrading the CDP rca jacks with a very robust make/model such as the Vampire CM2F/CB Copper Base rca jack, or if the CDP already has robust rca jacks, a locking barrel rca plug such as those from WBT may keep the center pin of the rca connector firmly aligned and secured within the CDP rca jacks.
Otherwise, it's possible that there's a bad solder joint which can be tested via the use of a continuity tester or multi-meter.
Reading that I would assume you have encountered a very honest and reasonable dealer. So I would ask, instead of seeking advice on a web thread that might end up just spending a lot more of your money, why wouldn't you just refer this problem back to the dealer and ask if he could rectify it? May just be a matter of adjustment of the collar. Or if the inputs on the cdp need replacing, he might do it inexpensively to retain a happy customer.
Really what the heck would a bad solder joint have to do with an RCA slipping off the connection?
"why wouldn't you just refer this problem back to the dealer?" - Because of a very long distance between us...
New? Warranty/ Shipping a cable? Even a heavy one? So $18 against $700?Jesus.....
that dealer is clueless and you have made a bad assumption
seems like you're saying the connection is 'superficially' solid but the sound is not which of course could be a solder joint inside. But I stand by taking it back to the dealer.
My question to the experts: are RCA connectors not made to certain standards of measurement under UL code? Are makers of 'exotic' connectors making them larger or smaller than the original UL code for RCA?
UL has to do with safety standards, and they typically address things like whether or not there is enough copper in a an AC cord to prevent actual heating of the copper metal when current flows through a power cord.
They only indirectly have anything to do with actual product quality, for by a product meeting UL safety standards, this assures a certain minimum performance with regard to the most basic and simplistic specs.
However, once we get away from safety issues that are as clear cut as not allowing the copper conductors in an AC cord to get so hot they present a fire hazard, they really don't provide much assurance in the way of product quality or performance.
UL provides none, nor calls for, any standards with regard to RCA plugs and jacks with regard to physical sizes, electrical contact or conductivity, except for those cases where they might require a ground to be made to a circuit ground or chassis ground by the RCA outer shell for safety purposes.
RCA plugs were developed as an incredibly inexpensive alternative to professional grade connectors back in the early days of home consumer hi-fi. The earliest ones were used only WITHIN the cabinet or chassis of an audio component, most often, to allow the phono cartridge to be unplugged from the preamp section for servicing. These had no barrels, no strain relief, no significant mechanical strength, because they weren't meant to be unplugged more than once or twice in their lifetime.
Once they started being used outside the chassis, they were made a little more sturdy, but were still butt ugly and of generally cheesy construction.
Once folks figured out cables made a sonic difference, the lowly RCA plug was studied and essentially re-designed by several high end manufacturer's, who beefed up the center pin, used superior materials, created a shielding barrel, and instituted the use of precious metals (gold) for the contacts, due to the all too frequent and predictable oxidation of the then common TINNED contacts. Yes, they were actually tin plated (usually over steel).
Later, chrome over the tin was used for cosmetic reasons, but they also did not tend to corrode as easily. It was still a poor signal connection.
See:
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Cables_Jacks_amp_Plugs_Connectors/RCA_Plug_chrome_for_older_Fender_Footswitch_315
for an example.
Modern high end audio RCA plugs and jacks are all an attempt to circumvent the fundamentally flawed original design, and the need to remain "compatible" with other such plugs and jacks.
And yes, Duster is right, they all sound slightly different, and can affect the overall performance of the cable they are used with.
Jon Risch
The OP wrote:
"...one of terminations connected to the CDP frequently gets loose (through superficially the connection is firm) and the left channel gets "out"."
While not so succinct, a description of an rca connector interface being "superficially the connection is firm" indicates that although the connection feels firm, the integrity of the left channel signal is still intermittent. The OP goes on to say that the heavy cables noticeably sag when connected to the CDP rca jacks. In my experience, a cold solder joint often produces this type of issue, so it is a possibility. Furthermore, I simply described potential scenarios that might be considered while trying to solve the problem.
finski wrote:
"My question to the experts: are RCA connectors not made to certain standards of measurement under UL code? Are makers of 'exotic' connectors making them larger or smaller than the original UL code for RCA?"
UL has nothing to do with a line-level audio interface. It's not a dangerous safety issue, so there's no certain standard of measurement under UL code or otherwise exists for rca jacks nor rca plugs for that matter. Some jacks grab a center pin like a bloody vice, whole others are silly-loose. This issue also has nothing to do with 'exotic' connectors vs. those of a mundane electronics store variety.
The terminations should not get "loose", unless the termination or the cable is defective. You may want to contact Straightwire directly and send the cable back to them to have it repaired.
I own the Crescendo I and II interconnects. They are good cables, even with their stock connectors.
For many years I was amongst those who were very skeptical about the effect of connectors on the sound of cables. I talked to Straightwire. They assured me that connectors do not affect the sound.
However, over time, I experimented with different connectors and found that they indeed make a profound difference. See my review below: REVIEW: Bocchino Brenda B9 Accessory.
I have abandoned my Crescendo interconnects for the Furutech cable/Furutech connectors and Furutech cable/Bocchino Brenda B9 connectors interconnects described in my review below. They both are a significant leap above the Crescendos in terms of dynamics and transparency, with the Furutech/Bocchino Brenda interconnect inching way ahead of the Furutech/Furutech interconnect particularly in terms of neutrality, timbre, musicality, and soundstaging.
The Furutech/Furutech would cost some $250 in parts for a 1 meter pair from the Parts Connexion. Since the Furutech FP-108(R) connectors are solderless, they are very easy to assemble. The new Bocchino Brendas are also solderless and, although more costly, well worth the additional expense in terms of their higher sound quality provided your system can reveal the difference.
If you are happy with the Crescendos, just have the faulty interconnect repaired and enjoy them. They are quite good with their stock connectors. Since the Crescendos require special termination, you will have to have the change in connectors done by Straightwire and that may turn out to be more costly than the parts cost of the Furutech/Furutech intercoonect.
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