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In Reply to: RE: I disagree (nt) posted by Duster on June 01, 2012 at 09:27:13
Dusty, instead of dismissing Finski's post with a perfunctory "nt", take time to consider it. Consider all the thousands of cables that perform different tasks and then ask the developers of these cables if break-in is required. Ask the makers of your in-house wiring if break-in is required in order for your TV to perform better, or for your clock to run more accurately. Go to MIT and ask a professor of electrical engineering if break-in is required. No, don't bother. I'd like to see his/her reaction!
Some people (heck, a lot of "audiophiles") seem to think that this hobby is special and somehow exempt from electrical/scientific principles - that somehow that 2' of cable that tethers the preamp to the power amp needs to be broken-in since its properties are above and beyond mere electron theory. And who sells you this reasoning? Is it the prof with an advanced degree in electrical engineering or the guy who's trying to sell you this otherworldly cable?
Dusty, you cited Soundstage as a reference for theory behind break-in. I don't recall seeing any peer reviewed published data on this but lots of conjecture from - you guessed it - cable vendors.
Follow Ups:
Audio equipment is designed by EEs. Name me one piece of Hi-end audio equipment where the sonics of the equipment does not improve from break-in time.
And yes that includes hook-up wire.
Jon Risch , the Bored Member who gave you two stern warnings below in another post, is an EE. You might want to spend a little time researching the archives here on AA reading his posts.
While you are at it check out John Curl, Charles Hansen, and the late Bob Crump just to name a few others. And yes they are EEs......
Your problem seems to be you need some white paper that shows where actual lab testing has been done.
Testing?.... Show me a test done by test equipment that will prove why an early 1960s white label Amperex PQ 6922 tube sonically sounds better than a current production EH 6922.
You can't.... At present no such testing equipment exists.
"Testing?.... Show me a test done by test equipment that will prove why an early 1960s white label Amperex PQ 6922 tube sonically sounds better than a current production EH 6922.
You can't.... At present no such testing equipment exists."
....
Is that because it's out of production?
Yea, I'm becoming vintage but in the day when I used tubes we had mutual transconductance tube testers and Tek curve tracers that pretty well told you the story. No magic thinking required. If you can find anyone that still has them I encourage you to try and verify your theory that what you are hearing is beyond measurement.
Rick
I dont think that Bob Crump was an E.E. More like an electrician. Actually I had heard he sold insurance or something before he started twisting wires. Loud guy ruined my time in the Soundlab room more than once.
jea48, it turns out that those guys aren't EE's after all. I guess you were a little over zealous in your desire to show me wrong. How are we to believe what you say now?
I'll take you up on your question: I'll contend that circuit board traces don't require a break-in period.
what evidence do you have to back up your claims? What testing have you done? Could you please provide us with detailed experiences and tests that clearly elucidate that a sensitive audio playback system cannot change after a break in period?
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
...but neither John Curl nor I are EE's. Instead we each have degrees in Physics. I'm not sure if Bob Crump had a degree, but if so I suspect it was in medieval English literature or some such. JC would know for sure.
None of this changes the fact that break-in impacts the sound of just about every electrical component (eg, wires, capacitors), and therefore profoundly affecting the sound of complete components (eg, amplifiers, speakers).
Seeing some guy with B-cups at the beach would be eye-wrentching, but EEs?
(a little humor, with the emphasis on "little" to throw in a double entendre)
You would think that I would be more sensitive to nuances in cables since I once heard the scream of the butterfly!
AS yet no one here has explained how soundstage or imageing can be done through a cable,,, Not even John Curl or other Physics Professors,,,Nor have they explained how break in of a cable occours...The Moderators are aware these are HONEST questions,,
Duster was responding to me, not Finski.
You've got the wrong thread dude.
---------------------------
gme109, I dont thank that was absolutely implicit.
ALways late to the party :)
Anyhow it is implicit if you are using classic view. You probably werent but if you are it is clear who is responding to who:
Lots of oldtimers use classic as that is the only view there used to be, and ethreads totally misses who is posting to who...
Afterwards we discovered faith; it's all you need
Classic view. Obfuscation view.....It's all so unscientific, aint it?
Sadly I dont understand your reply.
That picture is real and anyone can see it if they pick the classic view.
IMHO a screen shot that can be duplicated carries far more weight on the truth scales than most of the posts on the asylum.
Afterwards we discovered faith; it's all you need
Dust's "nt" post came right after Finsky's post so I figured he was responding to it. Sorry, about that dude.
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