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In Reply to: RE: Dielectric Absorption posted by Duster on May 30, 2012 at 14:38:43
choice of one minute of charging and 2 seconds of shorting are arbitrary or not. But after a voltage source is removed, shouldn't there be no more EMF ( elctro motive force or voltage ) stored in the cable, wouldn't they be referring to current instead? I am probably rusty on this stuff, but it does seem to suggest that a better insulator would be important in cable construction and could be part of the break in phenomenon, but if that is what they are describing does it necessarily have anything to do with so called cable break in. I am simply trying to understand this since it often seems that higher cost cables often are advertised as having break in as an attribute of their "quality" and perhaps a justification of higher costs. Thanks for the link. Norm
Follow Ups:
"I am simply trying to understand this since it often seems that higher cost cables often are advertised as having break in as an attribute of their "quality" and perhaps a justification of higher costs."
I not sure if you either can't hear break in or your background will not allow you to. However, the presumptuous claim you're making is preposterous.
That claim is not presumptuous, but maybe a little cynical. It does seem to be de rigueur of cable companies to list break-in time for their cables though - the more exotic (read expensive), the more time required. Let's say the company suggests 80 hours: what is happening at 80 hours that isn't happening at 70 hours? Is the cable 7/8 of the way there at 70 hours or does it all happen right at 80 hours. If the company can't answer this, and merely says "trust your ears", walk away.
And then there are the cable cookers. If we want our cables broken in, doesn't it seem logical to have the cable cooker broken in as well? Do we want a signal messing with our cables that isn't true? Some may scoff at this, but keep in mind we all have our limits to what we believe. Some don't believe in cable break-in at all; some do, but consider it subtle; some believe in maybe 10 hours of break-in, but not 80; some think 80, but not 400 and on and on.
We come into these debates with preconceived notions. How much do we "believe" before we start being suspicious. Where's that point?
"That claim is not presumptuous, but maybe a little cynical."
"Little cynical", what's that? 'Preposterous' is more on point.
Try to stay on topic. What does break-in have to do with the perception of quality?
"We come into these debates with preconceived notions."
Judging from your reply, in your case an agenda.
"How much do we "believe" before we start being suspicious. Where's that point?"
Agendas aside, what other point could there possibly be?
> > > > How much do we "believe" before we start being suspicious. Where's that point?You can always show your distrust of high end cable manufacturers with your wallet. Don't believe the claims, don't buy the product.
For every product segment there will be people who do not buy the claims of products within the segment. Wire-is-wire people are not likely to purchase after-market cables, Bits-R-Bits people are not likely to purchase expensive Dacs and indeed probably won't purchase a Dac period.
Forums like this rarely IF EVER change peoples minds, no matter how many posts and how many points and counter points are made.
You can always look at it from the perspective as being glad you don't hear a difference which enables you to spend your money on other things like music.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Edits: 05/31/12
One manufacture of cables and wire of all sorts and is one of the oldest cable manufactures here in this country,,Commented to me a strange virus of beliefs have cropped up and hyped the audio community,,making exotic claims that are not true,,Prying on the audio customer with high priced bling connectors...As a recording engineer with years of expierence older than some members here,,,I must caution the moderaters here to allow the truth to be known,,The cables and connectors are not brokin in before any recording sessions,, John Ergle one of the most respected audio recording engineers before his death commented on how bad the problem of over hype has become in the industry,,
It really does not matter at this point.
The seeds have been planted and the fruit has grown. We have passed the point of no return and perception drives sales. The best way for a consumer to protect themselves is to become educated on what concerns them the most. But even with education on the matter people will still be prone to purchase what they like or want and for any reason they choose. Note that any one of these reasons may defy logic or reason, but still it is the consumers prerogative to make the purchase.
If you feel that your knowledge and/or experience leads you to purchase standard non-Audiophile wire and you do not percieve a difference in sound between hr 1 and month 1, fine. Enjoy...
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
I forgot to address the orignal topic in my post, the matter of break-in. I do believe it is impossible to perceive the differences in sound that may occur over a playing period of 100 hours that may occur over days or weeks, that would result from break-in of a cable. That is my opinion and I hope it is not unreasonable to state it.
> > > > That is my opinion and I hope it is not unreasonable to state it.
I don't think its unreasonable.
I think it would be unreasonable to assume that everyone can or can't hear a difference.
Some people feel no pain relief from Tylenol, others feel pain relief every time. Still the manufacturers of Tylenol itself does not know "exactly" how Tylenol relieves pain.
Mechanism of Action
Analgesia
Although the exact site and mechanism of analgesic action is not clearly defined, acetaminophen appears to produce analgesia by elevation of the pain threshold.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
I once didn't appreciate the effect a speaker cable was having until I *stopped* using it! LOLIt was a long time back, my cable at the time was one of those 100s of fine strands per conductor designs. I swapped it for a braided Kimber model (can't remember which, but was entry level).
Anyway I remember not being all that impressed with the Kimber and switched back to my normal cable ... only in the days following I noticed that transient attack (or speed, or whatever) wasn't what it was with the Kimber leading to a less exciting or softened presentation.
Things like that you remember ... and make you reflect on own experience when faced with claims of the shortcoming of aural memory. :)
Short’s the best position they is. Bullet in the Brain
Edits: 06/03/12
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