- Posted by Steve Eddy (M) on June 26, 2009 at 14:22:36
In Reply to: RE: Which of these Chinese bulk cables would you go for? posted by Japesgalore on June 26, 2009 at 11:55:52
nt
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In Reply to: RE: Which of these Chinese bulk cables would you go for? posted by Japesgalore on June 26, 2009 at 11:55:52
nt
Given the huge amount of trade that the US does with China, I'll bet dollars to donuts that your house is full of Chinese products, from clothes and shoes to the bits inside the computer you use to access AA.
As a thought experiment, try turning your statement around and examine what would happen if China said they wouldn't buy anything from the US. The day they stop buying US exports like machine tools will make the current employment crisis look like the good old days, and the day they stop buying US Treasury bonds, the dollar will collapse.
The world id far too interconnected for such blanket biases. It makes sense to examine practices and prducts with a critical eye, but not to condemn a whole country.
Given the huge amount of trade that the US does with China, I'll bet dollars to donuts that your house is full of Chinese products, from clothes and shoes to the bits inside the computer you use to access AA.
Certainly for some things, particularly modern consumer electronics, there are few to no alternatives. However for many many other things, such as audio cables, there are alternatives and wherever there are alternatives, I will choose that which is not made in China.
For example, none of my clothes or my shoes are made in China.
As a thought experiment, try turning your statement around and examine what would happen if China said they wouldn't buy anything from the US. The day they stop buying US exports like machine tools will make the current employment crisis look like the good old days, and the day they stop buying US Treasury bonds, the dollar will collapse.
Yes, an unfortunate situation to be sure, and one which we got ourselves into with our eyes wide open.
However that the situation is what it is doesn't make it any less unfortunate nor should we continue to blindly follow that path.
se
"For example, none of my clothes or my shoes are made in China"
Do you have certificates to prove that?? Most American brands are made in the East at very low cost and you then buy it in the USA at exorbitant prices.
Do you have certificates to prove that?? Most American brands are made in the East at very low cost and you then buy it in the USA at exorbitant prices.
I don't buy based on whether the brand is American or not. I buy based on where it was made, which is indicated on the tag or label.
For example, the tag on the t-shirt I'm wearing right now says:
100% COTTON
RN# 15099
MADE IN QATAR
se
Now THOSE kinds of responses I really didnt expect. Though, in hindsight, maybe I should have. Wouldn't y'all care to elaborate, rather than just giving blanket, unsupported and, dare I say, blatantly prejudiced statements like that? I thought this site was all about 'analysis', on obscure science or otherwise. For sure personal prejudices get in the way sometimes, but that was just too much.
But for the sake of helping a fellow inmate (assuming that's the reason why anyone here responds to threads), could you just go along with it and tell me which you would buy if these products were 'American'. All I'm talking about here is three, or rather two, different *designs* of speaker cable. I'll take the plunge, and the risk, and promise to let you know whether it paid off.
Steve mentioned counterfeiters; if you look on the site you gave they are selling counterfeit Oyaide plugs. It should make you question the authenticity of the other products they are selling, ie the ‘OCC’ wire, my guess is it’s not…
A common experience resulting in a common confusion
The SPC-V16E is obviously a Kimber knock-off that's of unknown sound quality nor build quality (a fake Rolex is not a Rolex). I would not advise purchase of any of the cables shown unless at the very least enough positive reports by trustworthy golden ears were available to consider. Even then, i would personally pass on them in favor of other available products of known sound/build quality. my 2 cents
I think it would be premature to say that this cable is not 'a real deal', but I'd agree that it's not 'the real deal' as it clearly is aiming to look like Kimber cable. Someone else mentioned the power plugs being Oyaide imitations. Of course, it seems they are being produced to look similar (or rather the same), but they aren't being sold under the name of the original. Maybe they know that there'll be people out there unscrupulous enough to sell them on under the names of Oyaide and Kimber - smart business practice?
Is there a patent against these products looking like they're from the more famous brand, even if they aren't being sold as such? Is a style of braid also patentable? I kind of suspect there are rules on this, but we all know how many Chinese firms take these with a pinch of salt. Or maybe they are just trying to create the best possible product on a lower budget?
The bottom line here for me is whether the speaker cable will outperform my DIY Cat5 efforts. I've looked into the Kimber 8TC and been scared off by the prices (I'm a pure budget kind of guy). This is a far more valid option. The guys running this business are sound and their other products have proven to be very effective, particularly the dirt cheap brass footers that look like miniature cymbals (I don't think they sell them any more though). I can't see how a combination of copper and insulation could *so* deviate from the quality of the product it is based on. I have no reason to believe that it's not OFC and PE. Although, I would be more hesistant to buy something like power plugs, hence I had no choice but to splash out on Furutech power and RCA plugs.
Assuming that they are lieing about what their product is would just be prejudicial and born of a kind of defensiveness. I mean, my feeling is that American companies and common business practice allow for a lot of misrepresentation of their products, but in their own particular way, ie marketing hype and massively jacked up prices. The Chinese at least know what the score is over there; they don't deny it. They're just sort of playing free-market hard-ball, if you know what I mean, and taking it to its logical conclusion; in a way taking it to its logical conclusion...
Anyway, whatever, I'll try the cables out and post a comparison to my CAT5s. Who knows, maybe some day I'll be able to compare them to proper Kimber cables.
Oh yeah, and my question was about whether to get the part silver part copper cable, or the all copper cable. It's funny how most people just got hung up the fact that I would dare order anything from China (I'm not having a dig at you per se).
Go ahead and buy what you want, either way YMMV knock off or not.
Besides there are benefits to braiding a cable, so if company X wants to braid their cable to take advantage of those benefits then so be it. Home Grow audio for example braids their cables....but people don't put them down as Kimber Kable knock offs. Or do they?
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Now THOSE kinds of responses I really didnt expect. Though, in hindsight, maybe I should have. Wouldn't y'all care to elaborate, rather than just giving blanket, unsupported and, dare I say, blatantly prejudiced statements like that? I thought this site was all about 'analysis', on obscure science or otherwise. For sure personal prejudices get in the way sometimes, but that was just too much.
There is absolutely nothing prejudicial at all about my personal desire to not do business with China. It's all based on what is well known, not anything which is blindly assumed out of prejudice.
The country is a cesspool of toxic waste. It's crawling with counterfeiters and other intellectual property thieves. And the government allows its citizens next to no political freedom.
Based on that I choose not to do any business with them whenever possible.
Of course that's just my personal decision. Others are free to not care about such things.
But for the sake of helping a fellow inmate (assuming that's the reason why anyone here responds to threads), could you just go along with it and tell me which you would buy if these products were 'American'.
My comment had absolutely nothing to do with buying "American" products.
However to answer your question, I'm not sure they're offering anything there which would necessarily be an improvement over what you're using now.
For example, you mention the use of stranded conductors versus the solid conductors in your Cat 5 cables, however there are those who would argue that stranded conductors are worse than solid conductors.
se
As a consumer you can buy only a small fraction of what China produces, but an American company can buy in bulk. Surely you don't patronize "those" American companies who contribute to China....RIGHT?
If you don't then I assume your house is virtually empty.
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
And on the very same token I could choose not to do business with American companies for the country's politics (nuff said). But, you know, the people are not the government, even if there are a lot of them taking capitalism to the extreme and ripping off everyone they can. I personally like to do business with individuals who have an ethical approach to it, irrespective of where they are from, who they know or what their government is doing. I'm just glad I'm free from such limited ways of thinking.On getting back to me about the issue of which cable to get, I thank you for your input; it's definitely something I've considered. I'll probably take the plunge, or rather the slight splash, and go for the cheaper copper-only option. For sure I will post my findings on here, for better or for worse.
Edits: 06/27/09
z
A common experience resulting in a common confusion
nt
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