• Re: What should I do? marc 20:22:09 01/09/01 (0)
  In Reply to: What should I do? posted by Rolf@grid.net on January 08, 2001 at 13:12:07:

  I haven't heard the AES or GG, but I recently found myself in the
  same situation of having to sell my expensive MFA Magus tube preamp
  in order to upgrade to a better phono preamp. The MFA was hard to
  part with and I thought I would have to spend alot to get a decent
  line stage.
  After hanging out at bottlehead.com for a while I bought a Foreplay
  with the upgrades (SW and Anticipation), changed the caps to hovlands
  did the snubber etc and WOW!!!! The foreplay is better than my
  old favorite in every way and inexpensive to boot. These people
  are right- you can't go wrong with the foreplay. Don't even think
  of spending $1000-2000 on another expensive preamp. The foreplay
  also has the benefit of truly dedicated and helpful bottleheads.
  
  

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• Re: What should I do? CWizard 06:15:09 01/09/01 (0)
  In Reply to: What should I do? posted by Rolf@grid.net on January 08, 2001 at 13:12:07:

  I bought an AE-3 in Sept. (assembled) to compare with my friends heavily modified FP. The results, which were written up by my buddy can be found at:

  http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/bottlehead/messages/11509.html

  The only upgrade to the AE-3 was the pair of Philips JAN 6SN7's that AES sells. The AE-3 was burned in for a week before comparing (it's really harsh sounding out of the box). The FP was at around $600 in parts as tested, so it definitely wasn't stock. But the AE-3 was only $100 cheaper as evaluated if bought as a kit ($399/kit & $100/tube upgrade). The FP had goodies like Hovland caps, dual stepped attenuators using caddock resistors, etc. Do this to the AE-3 and you're getting close to a $1K preamp. Point is, on a dollar for dollar basis, I think this was a relatively fair comparison.

  The AE-3 is back in Cary, NC and Chuck (bless him) built me a FP which puts a smile on my face at least once every day.

  By the way, the AE-3 was not in any way a bad sounding preamp. I thought it was very nice for the money and way better than my old SS job. It's just that the FP (with Chuck's mods) was that much better.

  Hope this helps.

  Mike
  
  
  

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• Re: What should I do? Patrick Kopson 17:41:54 01/08/01 (0)
  In Reply to: What should I do? posted by Rolf@grid.net on January 08, 2001 at 13:12:07:

  I find both the Foreplay and Grounded Grid stunning--but different.
  The Foreplay kit at $99 seems a better value than the GG kit at $499.
  I built the GG from scratch for much less than the kit (about $150).
  I doubt you could even match the Foreplay kit price if you build it from scratch.

  The Foreplay has the added benefit of an extensive history of easy, low cost tweaks that provide real audible improvements.

  You cannot possibly go wrong with the Foreplay.
  
  

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• Re: What should I do? Ken 16:38:41 01/08/01 (0)
  In Reply to: What should I do? posted by Rolf@grid.net on January 08, 2001 at 13:12:07:

  I built both the AE-3 and the GG. I prefer the Foreplay.

  The GG is a mighty fine pre. It is, I believe, brighter and more analytical. It was to harsh for me. I just finished it and have not tweaked it much other than to put Jensen copper foil and paper in oil output caps in it. I put these same caps in the AE-3. Wrong move. I tried Auricaps in the GG with bad results. I want to do some work on the filament supply and play with it some more. The GG is good but has a different sound and is much more expensive.

  The AE-3 was bad right out of gate. It took a lot of modification but is sounding pretty good. New tubes to replace the Chinese tubes. Filament supply mod. Auricaps which work great in this amp. I was just wodering today if the coupling caps could be removed and I see my answer in Quest's post so I'll be at that tonight. The AE-3 is not competition for the Foreplay.

  I would also like to know what parts were used to C4S the stages if someone would care to enlighten me, please. Thank You.

  I would strongly concur with the the suggested use of the Foreplay, You would note be disappointed. You may forget about those high priced other units. Like Quest says there is a lot of info and help right here and it is fun.
  
  

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• The steep $$ competition will disapoint given the Foreplay N.T. Tony D. 15:52:26 01/08/01 (0)
  In Reply to: What should I do? posted by Rolf@grid.net on January 08, 2001 at 13:12:07:

  N.T.
  
  

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• Re: What should I do? JimM 15:29:58 01/08/01 (0)
  In Reply to: What should I do? posted by Rolf@grid.net on January 08, 2001 at 13:12:07:

  Well, since it came up, I best chime in about it...

  The AE-3 is fine, if fine is what you want. I do like the esthetics of the case, and it's size for placement purposes, and if you got one as a kit you would have some budget left over to re-work it. If you like the looks, then you're at a good starting point. With a lot of work you will probably end up liking the sound, too, but in its stock form it has a long way to go to even be on par with a Foreplay, no kidding.

  I 'inherited' mine along with a pair of amps that I purchased about a year ago. I was not familiar with the Foreplay at the time, so I did not know any better. Ignorance is indeed bliss, but since then I have been enlightened, and I've been on an odyssey ever since. Because I had already made a substantial investment in caps and time, I did not want to abandon the AE-3 for a Foreplay, but I would have been money ahead, and I still see the Foreplay as my fall-back plan. So I stuck it out through the re-engineering process until it now sounds quite nice. Only the hardware and the tranny are still stock on mine by this time.

  The small size of the case has caused me a lot of problems, though, and working on it is like working on a spring-loaded jack in the box, when I pull out the last screw on the cover, *Sproing!* I'd rather have the room of the Foreplay.

  The Foreplay is a great preamp, do not let price fool you. If it were Christmas all over, you should ask Santa for a Foreplay, and every Bottlehead upgrade they offer. Just get them all, you can put them in at your leisure, but don't stop part way through and compare it to the expensive preamps. Once you have built it, and added the mods, you will be able to stand tall amongst your audiophile friends, and knock them over with the quality of the sound.

  I took the hard road, but you can take the easy one, it's just as rewarding. And all the Bottlehead products are very well supported by the factory and this forum.

  Regarding whether the Foreplay would "disappoint given the steep competition", absolutely not, no way. In fact, you'll be tempted to brag it up to your friends, and have a little listening competition. I can imagine the scene already, a little like the wrestler Goldberg screaming "WHO'S NEXT?"!!! So bring 'em on.

  Just my .02

  Jim

  
  
  

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• I've heard the AE-3... JRutter 13:45:54 01/08/01 (1)
  In Reply to: What should I do? posted by Rolf@grid.net on January 08, 2001 at 13:12:07:

  I've heard fellow bottlehead JimM's modified AE-3 (missed the original version listening session). He has done extensive work on his and it is sounding very nice. But the Foreplay MORE than holds its own against the AE-3. I have not heard Rosenblitz's stuff, but it seems like a solid design...

  Perhaps Jim or some of the others who heard the evolution of his pre can comment as well...

  JR
  
  

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  • I would like to throw in my $0.02 Quest 14:17:46 01/08/01 (0)
    In Reply to: I've heard the AE-3... posted by JRutter on January 08, 2001 at 13:45:54:

    if you don't mind.

    Jim Marter has come a long way in improving his AE0-3 to this current state and seriously, it betters the original AE-3 by huge magnitude. Needless to say it took him many, many endless nights tweaking his C4S'ed AE-3 in order to obtain such super performance.

    If you read my VALVE meeting writeups you'll probably noticed me commenting on JimM.'s super AE-3 as a 6SN7 based preamp that does not sound like any 6SN7-based preamp on earth...with well-defined bassline, excellent transcients and very, very smooth sound to boot. Compared to the original stock AE-3 the stock one sounds, just like an conventional 6SN7 based preamp with all the expected sound and such.

    Here's what JimM has done to his supermodded AE-3 so far:

    (1)Major modifications to the original AE-3 power supply sections,

    (2) direct-coupling between the 1st stage of 6SN7 and the second stage,

    (3) all capacitor upgrades (Auricaps),

    (4) C4S'ed the stages,

    (5) major changes to the DC heating part ...

    (6) Redesign the stage's operating points (We do not agree with the original operating points that D. Had put into AE-3...)

    Compared this supermodded AE-3, the stock ones sounded pale and fluffy. That's all I would like to tell you.

    I have no experience with Rosenblizt's (sp) preamp. I do have lots of experience with other tube/hybrid commercial preamps like AR, CJ, etc.

    Bottomline: if you are the adventurous type and you have the knowledge to build and tweak amps (we can help you with the tweaking part) then Foreplay is the one for you. If you are the type that constantly in pursuance for "Hi Fi" sound then AE-3 is your bet.

    Cheers,

    Quest :^>
    
    
    

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