Bottlehead Forum

Welcome! Need support, you got it. Or share you ideas and experiences.

Bottlehead Forum

High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp

68.49.206.15

Hello to all Bottlehead patriots and thank you for all your great forum posts of the past!

I wish to apollogize for this lengthy post but I havn't been able to answer my questions through reading the forums.

My current audio system consists of Quicksilver Mini-Mite mono tube amps @ 25 watts a channel, Linn AV 5140 speakers, an Audible Illusions pre-amp with a P-1 power supply box, and the Rega Apollo CD player as source. I have never been happy with the systems sound and after months of internet research (5" pile of printout). I concluded that only a Single End Triode (SET) system will make me happy.

I am currently building a Foreplay III pre-amp and a SEX amp as a base for the new SET amp audio experience I envision. I also plan to eventually sell my Linn speakers, Quicksilver amps, and Audible Illusions pre-amp.

My listening room is a small 14' X 11' with 9'ceiling. The listening chair sits about 9' from the speakers. I am currently researching efficient speakers for my new Bottlehead system.

The music I listen to is mostly classical, jazz, and chamber music. Music in small emsemble format, vocalists, piano, guitar, cello. I enjoy listening at low levels and near field thus my move to the Bottlehead SEX amp audio experience.

I really like the idea of the Cain and Cain Abbys near field speakers or the Lowther Alerion but due to cost consideration I am narrowing down to the Madisound BK-16's or BK-20's DIY kits or possibly buying used Klipsch Heresy, Cornwalls, or La Scala speakers. I am currently partial to the used Klipsch because they are re-saleable as compared to the BK-16 DIY speakers. I have never heard any of the speakers I have mentioned above. My evaluation is strictly based on Forum posts!

Some questions for the Bottlehead community:

1) The Madisound Bk-20 is a larger driver version of the BK-16. I like the idea of a large Fostex driver in the BK-20. Which speaker does the Forum recommend?

2) Some threads say the BK-16/BK-20 are muddy in there midrange, any comment?

3) Some threads say the BK-16 is not good for near field listening? Comments please?

4) Are the Klipsch speakers good for near field listening?

5) What tweaks would be recommended with the Madisound BK-16/BK-20 speakers?

6) Some say the BK-16 super tweeter isn't necessary and should be excluded from the purchase? Comments please?

7) I have read in forums and articles that audio speakers have had a significant positive development in the past 30 years. Therefore I am wondering how old a used set of Klipsch speakers I should consider buying, and still have timely speaker technology?

Sincerly,

John of Washington, DC the city of the puzzle palace

Follow Ups:

What do you all think of this? - Booangler 12:42:49 09/20/09 (1)
Hi all,

Do you have any thoughts about the information in this BLOG?
- Simple DIY Monitor Speakers (Open in New Window)
- RE: What do you all think of this? - jelx 07:57:04 09/21/09 (0)
  Booangler,
  
  Very interesting thanks for the post. I am contemplating. I had pretty much settled on Horn Shoppe speakers to use with my SEX Amp. But these SEXY speaker setup is very compelling.
  
  John L.
usually you need - Oface 13:55:44 09/11/09 (0)
to give on a few things here.....

$$Budget$$.....

Do you need turn-key or can you diy? Have access to equipment or know a friend who does?

I have used fostex loaded diy bk-16's, bib's, and br's.

I also have ran sets through some Klipsch kg4's, not too bad.....

I am now own/use some Altec 604's in 620A cabs ( think big 9.3^ft br box....)

I gave away every cabinet for the fostex's, and the fostex's are up in my closet.. have a project for them to be my near filed computer speakers....

If you are stuck on the single driver idea I would look at the frugal horn website too, many people have put a lot of time and exp into those designs.... would be worth looking into...

Good luck,

-chris
- http://www.frugal-horn.com/ (Open in New Window)
S.E.X.Y. Speaker Mod - Booangler 11:02:15 09/11/09 (1)
Is there any reason why I couldn't use a similar setup with my current monitors, which would definitely benefit from having more woofer. I know that my B&W's are not high efficiency but the setup described in SEXY speaker section would work wouldn't it?

Alan
- RE: S.E.X.Y. Speaker Mod - Paul Joppa 14:09:38 09/11/09 (0)
  Well, you can certainly add a sub or two to get more and/or better bass.
  
  One virtue of the SEXy is a reduction of bass driver excursion, which is obtained by using a small sealed box with a high resonance (and no bass). If your existing speakers are ported, you may be able to get the same effect by plugging the port, and possibly filling part of the box to reduce internal volume. That would depend on the driver and box parameters. Of course, if your driver has good excursion capability this is not important.
  
  The other virtue is high efficiency, which would normally require a huge box to get good bass - but by using the high resonance design and replacing the bass with a sub, you get a smaller package. Naturally, usng the same speakers will not change their efficiency.
RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - Jim_R 12:21:32 09/10/09 (4)
John,

Also check out the posts by DeadFish a little further back. He's using the Horn Shoppe Horns with his s.e.x. amp and loves the combination. I have a pair of the same Horns that I've just finished a bunch of tweaks to, but got sidetracked on my s.e.x. build, but I trust DeadFish to know ahat sounds good with these speakers.

I've heard the Horns and BK-16s and there's no comparison, the Horns are the hands-down better speaker. Also about 96/97 dB sensitive.

I'm sitting here using a 3 watt SE EL84 amp (albeit a very good one) into the Horns and listening to Pepe Romero with the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, the source is a Sony D25S discman, the volume is at 1:00 and I'm floored by what I'm hearing.

This weekend I hope to finish the ballast loading of the void in the bottom of the Horns and switch over to my Wavelength dac and get the Cube bass augmentor setup, and then this could be in contention for the best system I've ever had, and at a fraction of the price of some of the old ones I've had.

http://www.thehornshoppe.com

HTH,

Jim
- RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - 2wo 20:25:10 09/10/09 (0)
  I agree completely, I have owned a pair of the Horns for a few years now and I still love them. They just do music right, the tone, the coherence or whatever is just magic. The BK-16 is nice for the price but sound a bit thin and less refined to me. I have a pair of the Bottlehead Straight 8"s, which are big fun and any number of DIY speaks. For what your looking for, try the Horns.
  The nice thing about the Horns is if you don’t like them you can send them back.
  No affiliation, yada, yada yada…John
  Edit; Now that I have actually read the entire thread. We met at Frank’s meet. I am the tall guy with the SR-45 amp. I am near Valley Forge Pa. If you want to here the Horns…John
  
  But it’s the sense of satisfaction I get, by getting it to do anything at all…
  
  Edits: 09/10/09
- RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - Natural Sound 12:32:27 09/10/09 (2)
  I remember looking at these speakers after I bought my S.E.X. amp. Unfortunately my listening room wont accommodate corner placement. Other than that I've heard noting but good things about this speakers.
  - RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - Jim_R 12:51:49 09/10/09 (1)
    Mine aren't placed in corners and they work very well without corners too. I use, or will be using, the Cube bass augmentor that The Horn Shoppe also sells and is designed to integrate seamlessly with the Horns.
    
    My setup is not even symmetrical - the left speaker is 36" from the left wall and the right one is about 6'6" from the right wall and both are approx 7 to 8 feet from the listening position, depending on whether or not I'm reclined.
    
    The madisound bk-16 will give you more bass as they are, than the Horns will without corners, but add the Cube and everything else will go to the horns.
    
    Sorry if I sound enthusiastic, but I do not represent anybody, and my opinions are my own, and I get no kickbacks of any kind. I've recommended this system to several folks now, and all seem to be quite happy with them. Of course, tastes, ears, rooms, amps, etc. all figure into the final verdict.
    
    I'll say no more about these now.
    
    -- Jim
    - RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - Natural Sound 16:45:33 09/11/09 (0)
      Thats cool Jim. Nothing wrong with being excited about a product you can get behind. I'll be sure to keep thehornshoppe on my shortlist if I need high efficency speakers in the future. Thanks for the comments.
      
      -Tom
RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp Klipsch YES - Iain42 12:05:46 09/10/09 (0)
Go for the highest efficiency you can find and also fully horn loaded if you can. There are lots of good prices out there right now for Klipschorns if you have corners or if not Belles or LaScalas. The fully horn loaded are just much better with flea power than the Cornwalls. Personally that little mid horn in the cornwall drives me nuts. If you get la scalas the amount of modding you can do is crazy.

Good Luck

High sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Pwk
RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - Corndog71 12:59:38 09/09/09 (1)
I have a pair of Klipsch KG4.2 towers I picked up a few months ago and they work very well with my sex amp. I upgraded the crossovers with newer parts and boy did that change them for the better! Incredible bass and dynamics with surprisingly good imaging. The sex amp starts losing steam around 90dBs but for non-room shaking levels it's a great combo. I only paid $350 for the pair plus another $60 for the new crossover parts.

If I were you I would hold off on selling the Linn speakers as they may still sound ok with the Bottlehead gear. I've never heard a bad Linn speaker. Another option is to take a look at the crossovers inside them and see if there's room for improvement. I'm now a complete believer in using the best parts possible for the crossovers. So many manufacturers skimp in this area to meet price points and it can really compromise the potential of a given design.

Rob C
The world was made for people not cursed with self-awareness
- RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - jelx 21:17:04 09/09/09 (0)
  Thank you for the response Corndog. I have read many of your forum posts and appreciated your insight. Yes, I plan to see how those Linn speakers do with the SEX Amp and Foreplay III. But if they fail they are out of here. I am looking to buy a used Sennheiser HD 600 head phone set and I can't wait to try them through my SEX Amp.
  
  John
RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - dbishopbliss 12:41:30 09/09/09 (7)
Sorry for not answering your question, but there are quite a number of Bottleheads in the DC area and we have fairly regular meets in the suburbs. You might want to attend the next one to hear different speakers and see which ones you like.

That said, I made a pair of metronomes with Fostex FE127e drivers. Used the same drivers in a pair of DIY Audio Reference Speaker. I've listened to both with a S.E.X. amp in the past and I think they sounded pretty good as long as you aren't going for high dB (which you don't seem to do).

I should have my S.E.X. amp built soon and can let you know how they sound.

Also, have you considered the S.E.X.Y. speaker?
- RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - jelx 21:33:18 09/09/09 (6)
  Thanks for your post. I attended the Mid-Atlantic Bottlehead Meet in PA last month. It was a great experience. I brought my Foreplay III which I just wasn't able to debug on my own. Ray checked it out and advised me that the Transformer was dead. I sent it off to Bottlehead Inc. and Eileen called and verified that the transformer was dead. They replaced the transformer and cleaned up some solders and it is on its way back to me. Bottlehead Corp. is so great they only charged me $90 for the work.
  
  At the Mid-Atlantic BH Meet I heard some excellent audio set ups and met a great group of enthusiasts. The funny thing is that I wrote down the names of all the CD's that I heard and really enjoyed. I bought those five CD's at Melody Records on Conn. Ave and when I played them on my present system they didn't some half as good as they did at the Meet. I am looking forward to testing them on my SEX Amp.
  
  I have considered the S.E.X.Y Speakers but I understood from the Forum that recommended subwoofer wasn't being sold anymore.
  
  I would like to know how they sound and would like to hear your setup if you live within striking distance of WDC. I have never heard a SEX Amp. All my evaluation has been through Forums and articles.
  
  John
  - dead transformer - RayP 06:14:20 09/11/09 (2)
    Glad to hear you are getting it fixed. We all struggle building this stuff and it is such a nice surprise when sound comes out of the speakers. I usually do a little jig as well to celebrate.
    
    My latest jig was last weekend for a 12HG7 / SV811-10 monster which I will bring to the next meet when we have it. The thing weighs a ton and is well up there in the 'ugly' stakes.
    
    ray
    - RE: dead transformer - jelx 10:20:32 09/11/09 (1)
      Ray,
      
      Eileen and Dan at Bottlehead treating very graciously fairly on the repair of my Foreplay III and it is on its way back to me.
      
      Have your heard anything about the next Mid-Atlantic Bottlehead Meet I really enjoyed the last Meet and am looking forward to the next one.
      
      John L
      - RE: dead transformer - RayP 14:42:29 09/11/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: dead transformer posted by jelx on September 11, 2009 at 10:20:32
        
        We were thinking of doing a run thru test of our procedures for the 6V6 competition later this year so there might be another meet in a month or so. We are planning to use Steve's waveguide / JBL LE14A speakers so something like these might be an alternative for you to listen to.
        
        ray
        http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1856214#post18 (Open in New Window)
  - RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - dbishopbliss 10:02:33 09/10/09 (1)
    So we met at the audio meet. You used my Foreplay III for comparison. I also brought the preamp and amps in the Sun hardrive cases. I think you got some of my music as well.
    
    I should have my S.E.X. amp done in a couple of weeks. I have several other projects in the queue (not audio) so I'm having to find time. My S.E.X. will have the C4S upgrade and some M4 Magnequest transformers. I will let you know when its done, then perhaps you can come out and listen.
    
    David
    - RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - jelx 11:46:04 09/10/09 (0)
      dbishopbliss. I remember you and that nice sounding audio system you were demo-ing at the Mid-Atlantic Meet.
      
      I admired the way you put together your Foreplay III it looked exactly like the Bottlehead manual pictures. I vowed to try to do the same quality of build on my SEX Amp project, after seeing your Foreplay build.
      
      I would love to hear your SEX Amp when it is finished. Please get back to me.
      
      John L.
  - RE: High Efficiency Speakers for the SEX Amp - johnvb 08:39:31 09/10/09 (0)
    I'm using a "SEXy" type nearfield system with my SEX amp, still getting things together, so take this with a grain of salt :^). Sitting 6' apart, 7' from the chair, in an 11'/6" x 15' room, they are placed via the "Cardas method", which gives me good imaging and depth.
    
    For the subwoofers, I picked up a couple of Energy ESW-8 powered subs, from my local Costco warehouse. With the in-store rebate, they were only around $130 each. Used as the speaker stands, the subs sit on Auralex isolation platforms, which in turn sit on butcher blocks (from Bed Bath&Beyond), on carpet. This gets my monitors at the correct height, without having to tip them back.
    
    For the monitors, I bought a pair of used Tektons with the Fostex FE167e drivers. These work OK, but would probably be better in a larger room, the whizzers bother me occasionally (even with Planet 10 phase plugs). So I have just recently ordered some Fostex FF165ks, which are said to be better for nearfield and at lower volumes, to try out in the cabinets. Then probably try a super tweeter after that, to finish things off. Thats the plan as of today, anyway.
    
    I know the C&C "nearfield" Abby uses the FF165K, as does the BK-16. I would be curious to find out why the latter wouldn't work in nearfield.
    - http://www.energy-speakers.com/na-en/products/esw-8-overview (Open in New Window)

Post a Followup:

FAQ

Post a Message!

Forgot Password?

Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
	Remember my Moniker & Password (What's this?) Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:

Message:	(Posts are subject to Content Rules)

Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:	Automagically notify you when someone responds.

To view your new posting or follow-up, click on the RELOAD or REFRESH button on your browser.