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i assembled my eros a few days ago and to put it simply it's amazing. i had been anticipating something like an enhanced version of the seduction, a similar sound with some improvements here and there, but within the first three seconds of throwing a record on i could tell that it was a whole new amp. the sound is much larger and more open, clear, realistic, fluid, smooth, however you word it the point is that it sounds more like 'music' and less like an amp. there were a few of those moments where a sound was so realistic it was startling; and this on records i've heard with the c4s'd seduction hundreds of times.
all of the other things that i've read about the eros so far seem to be true; smoother sound, better detail, and deeper bass, but in my experience these are actually the less impressive improvements the amp has to offer. the thing that i'm most impressed with is just how naturally the instruments flow together and how liquid the soundstage is. i don't like using these vauge terms any more than you like reading them, but the size and shape of the soundstage changes so quickly and fluidly that it's amazing to listen to, just to hear how it will change next. the seduction in comparison sounds like it's flat and anchored to the ground.
the soundstage is not only larger but much more realistic; you can really hear where every instrument seems to be coming from. i wish i had some records with binaural recording to see just how convincing it can get. this is the improvement that i find the most striking about the amp and it's the one that makes me feel justified in spending another $750 when i already had a great amp.
as for the construction: there have been some complaints about the kit so far and i unfortunately have a few to add. the tube sockets were extremely difficult to screw into place without the nuts used to secure them hitting the ceramic socket and damaging it. the 12bh7 actually cracked a small amount on the side while i was trying to turn the nuts (not down the middle or near any of the pins thankfully). this was a frustration i hadn't dealt with when assembling the seduction, which used the same sockets and mountings, so i'm not sure what to attribute it to.
the shielded twisted pair wire that came with the amp was stranded, which wound up making the tight tube socket wiring a bit of a nightmare. i was prepared for the sockets to be hard work after assembling the seduction, but the stranded wire makes it so much trickier. this isn't something bottlehead can be faulted for, doc b already said it's an issue with the supplier that he's trying to work out, but it's still a big frustration.
otherwise everything went pretty well; the amp was assembled without any mistakes and it's sounding great. the pdf instructions made things much easier to follow along with, giving clear pictures for each and every step, and the circuit board wiring was generally easier than the point to point terminal strip wiring on the seduction. if solid core wiring had been available and the tube sockets had screwed into place easily, i wouldn't have anything to complain about. once all the bugs are worked out the amp should wind up being really easy to build.
i do notice that the amp has more audible noise than the seduction, not less; this seems to be a problem with the tubes rather than the amp itself though. the EH tubes supplied were terrible, with the absolute worst mismatching i've ever heard. the louder tube screwed the left/right balance and caused a high amount of tube rush in it's channel. that tube has now died on me, and good riddance; i have no doubt that a good, low noise set of ef86's will solve the noise complaints people have had with the amp. i have a set of RFT's on the way that i'll try out and report back on...
i didn't want to go on that long, but hopefully it helps somebody out. although i still love the seduction and think it kicks ass for it's price, the eros seems better in every way and kicks an equal amount of ass for it's price. you'll probably need a new set of tubes and some extra patience to assemble these early runs of the kit, but i think it's well worth it for anyone who's on the fence.
and they're much quieter. in order to hear the noise i now have to turn the knob on my headphone amp up much higher than normal listening levels, whereas before noise was just beginning to intrude at the normal level. my hunch that tubes are the only problem turned out to be correct, the amp now has no noise issues and is at least as quiet as the seduction. anyone else complaining about noise should try a pair of these NOS RFT's out.
the only tube i haven't fiddled with is the 12BH7. could any of the designers of the amp shed some light on what can be gained by replacing it, and what tube would be a good choice? in fact, some info on what brands tested good or bad for every tube type used in the amp would be really nice.
I agree with a lot of that! I still have more background noise than I want, but while the music plays it sounds great, so I may just get used to it. I tried a couple different tubes and hear very little difference in the noise or musicality of the preamp.
As for improving the amp, longer screws might lessen the cursing involved in the socket installation. The shunt regulation can be improved - the lm431 is an 11 cent part causing some issues - it at least should be bypassed. And the printed circuit boards shouldn't have jumpers - they should be customized for each module.
All that said, it still sounds really really good when playing music, and that's the point.
I'd like to address some of the issues here, for those interested in the design questions and decisions.
First, the EF86 is a low-transconductance pentode so it naturally has more white noise than a high transconductance triode like the 6DJ8/6922 types. This is somewhat, though not entirely, mitigated because it is an audio design, not a VHF radio design, so there is some reasonable hope that the low-frequency "pink" noise (a.k.a. 1/f noise) will be more well controlled. And the greater gain keeps the second stage from contributing as much high-audio-frequency noise. In most cases its noise is still well below the vinyl surface noise. But the main point is, this is a great sounding tube - worth (IMHO) suffering a few problems to get that certain bit of aural magic.
I'm not clear on what issues you see due to the 431 chip - ping me, offline if you like, if you want to discuss specific things. I'm always interested in potential improvements! The shunt regs are bypassed in a way (at high audio frequencies) by the stability network. However, in general it's hard to design a shunt regulator that does not rely on capacitors in the signal path, and caps are always a bit problematic for the sound. For what it's worth, we did extensive listening tests with 6 different shunt regulation circuits before settling on this one as the most musical sounding. In the case of the Eros, we went to some trouble to isolate the gain stages from the regulated power supply with current sources, further minimizing the PSU contribution to the sonics. But as I have said before, I have never met a poser supply improvement that was not also a sonic improvement.
I certainly agree about the advantages of specific PC boards for specific purposes. They would be a lot easier to design, too - I spent many many hours making these to serve in all the Bottlehead products! However, the economies of scale are pretty compelling for PC boards. Dedicated boards would add a bit over $100 to the price of this kit.
So I am to understand right out the gate without any breakin time the Eros just smokes the Seduction?
yeah, pretty much. i had the seduction c4s'd and worn in with my favorite tubes, and even brand new with the stock tubes the eros blew me away. i do think the seduction still has it's charm, maybe sometimes it's smaller and more 'solid' soundstage might be preferable to the expansive and immersive presentation the eros has, but i've yet to find a recording i feel that way about. again, loved the seduction while i had it and would gladly use it again if i had no other option, but i haven't thought twice about selling it in order to get the eros; no regrets.
Well I just hope for the same results with the Eros as a tape pre.
I replaced my EF86 with Tung Sol tubes almost immediately due to noise, they were about $33.00 each but at this point with the investment in money and time, the listening enjoyment was well worth the cost. I was lucky enough to have some reserve solid core wire left over from previous builds and used it.
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