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Those who know me know I get into these debates and people were blasting Audio Note for their 1 year warranties. Response Audio is an upgraded AN kit builder and they offer 5 year transferable warranties. Someone noted that gee what does that say about the regular models.I understand a kit being 1 year on a warranty and I understand a pro builder offering a 5 year warranty - but tube makers often claim to have superior build to solid state amplifiers but virtually all very expensive tube amplifier makers offer pretty pathetic warranties.
ARC and Cary offer 3 year non transferable warranties - AN offers only 1 but at least it's transferable.
But the thing that bothers me - and I am a huge fan of AN - no question - is that if some Chinese made company like Antique Sound Labs can offer 5 years - then why is AN's warranty so short?
I would not buy based on warranty time because my view is if it works for 1 year it will probably last 15+ but that said if it is really true - then wouldn't offering a 5 year warranty on AN stuff - just put the screws to competition a little more and show more confidence than your average company?
I know some companies will take things on a case by case issue like if a transformer fails in year three and it's very costly some makers will say "transformers should not fail this quickly and thus we'll cover it" but you're still at the mercy of the manufacturer or dealer or both.
Tube amps seem a lot better built across the board - it seems to me a warranty should reflect that.
Edits: 05/14/09
Dear Richard,
We actually offer 2 years warranty on all manufactured electronics in line with current European Community legislation, speakers are and remain 5 years.
Unlike many manufacturers our warranty is fully transferable to second/third owners and between different countries, in addition we will support our products with FOC spares if the situation validates it, case in point being the failure of several batches of AN paper in oil copper caps over the past 3 - 4 years.
I think reliability and general back up is far more important than the length of warranty, especially if the warranty is confined to the place where the product was bought because these days customer move around far more than they ever did, so having a flexible and sensible warranty and support to all customers whether they bought new or second hand is essential in my view.
There is no real evidence from other industries that long warranties greatly affect second hand values, whereas reliability and durability/longevity certainly do, so the need for a long warranty is only really an advantage if the brand is an unknown entity on the market or has developed a bad reputation for reliability in order to reinstill some confidence in the market, although this seems to be a hit and miss affair, (let us see what FIAT do to address this issue when their products hit the US market shortly once the Chrysler deal is concluded, for example).
Sincerely,
Peter Qvortrup
Since my post I recently read about your caps issues and that despite servicing out of warranty you were still prepared to fix the problems - the mere fact that you admitted to failures on your website was surprising because I can't think of a single audio company who admit to problems but would far rather hide the problems. VW has a terrible reputation (at least in my circle) for blaming customers for failures saying "this is German engineering and if it breaks it must be your fault" kind of attitude. Needless to say I won't touch a VW with a ten foot pole.
Fiat has a terrible reputation "Fix It Again Tony" is what they're called here. Which is why they're not sold here. Hyundai/Kia came out with 10 year powertrain warranties and while perhaps not the best cars are no worse than the American Cars. Certainly the warranty likely helped some leary buyers.
I guess the concern is someone who spends $10,000 on an amp and the transformer blows up 2 years and a week later. This probably never happens but you gotta admit that's a big blow to someone when they see Fred down the road with his 19 year old $3k Bryston who has his transformer blow and they replace it free.
I know Rolls Royce use to fix things out of warranty with the attitude that "It should not have failed - therefore we fixed it" even when it was way way out of warranty - and maybe all "good" companies have such provisions where when something fails (like the paper in oil caps) the manufacturer will take it on their shoulders to get it fixed up. Especially since the 10K amp buyer may eventually be on the hunt for a $50k amp down the line.
would not increase their warranty if doing so did not boost expected revenues by an amount at least as much as the additional expected cost of providing the warranty. What one can infer is just that: increasing the warranty does not have as big effect on revenues as it does on costs.
So, either the gear is so reliable in buyers' minds, just as it is, that they are not willing to pay very much more for greater reliability, or this gear is so unreliable that no amount of warranty sugar will increase revenues enough to equal the costs of repairing all the bad stuff.
Which do you think it is?
If the market is not competitive, then AN's current practice would be consistent with a rational mfr. that controls a small niche market, or again the gear is so reliable and highly thought of that buyers are insensitive to increasing the warranty.
Maybe AN ought to decrease reliability and raise prices? Anyone with an economics degree want to suggest why? It's a prelim question.
"Live free or die"
I think we should stay away from the generalizations though.
Bryston is extremely popular in my view because of the 20 year transferable warranty on their power amplifiers and preamplifiers. This retains their used values and customers are not worried about the products. Bryston did the math and found that so few came back that they could offer this kind of warranty without raising prices.
Now I bought AN over the Bryston because I don't care for the sound of Bryston so no amount of warranty would have mattered to me because I would not want to live with that sound for 20 years.
I think AN's sales would increase after a lot of people on forums basically said that a 1 year warranty is pathetic and they would wait a year buy used and save a pile of money.
If a company is worried over drastic increased costs of offering a few extra years of warranty then that should worry a consumer right? It means that the product is going to fail at high percentages in years 2-5. At least this is the devil's advocate point made to me. It's a fair point. Most items break in the first 3 months - every company offers a warranty for a year at least. The "trough" of fewest breakdowns is in years 1year and 1 day to year 5. This is when the fewest problems occur. Then year 5 and 1 day on is where problems increase steadily.
Warranty companies make their fortune by selling warranties in the "trough period" of fewest breakdowns. What I am saying is that AN and other better makers should see this and provide the warranty during the trough period where fewest breakdowns occur. In theory it is least costly (less than the first year) but what it does is "beat" competitors who have not figured out this simple probability math.
Unless of course tube amps are so unreliable that 50% of all tranformers fail by the fourth year. And unfortunately that's what a lot of people think about tube amps. Customer service on repair is such a good word of mouth aspect. Bryston's service and warranty makes them what they are - not their actual products - IMO.
as tube afficionados say. Actually there is always something going on and they are PITA. AN customers are perceived as a "tweakers" and this activity is suported by manufacturer. It is wise than that warranty period is only 1 year since I guess many people open up the boxes right after purchase to solder black gates, coupling caps and tants. I think that procentage of AN customers doing that is way higher than any other brand. Lastly in my opinion warranty issue has no impact on AN sales whatsoever. Bigger issue would be relatively low resale value.
It's not the price of used AN equipment that is a problem for me. The problem is that there is hardly any used AN equipment for sale, ever!
"Live free or die"
usualy higher end of AN shelf. And don't get me wrong .I don't have any problem with AN pricing whatsoever.
There's a Kegon, a P-4, Kageki, and Zero. The P-4 looks tantalzing at €10.000, interstage coupled. No caps. Less than half price
"Live free or die"
There's a Kegon, a P-4, Kageki, and Zero. The P-4 looks tantalzing at €10.000, interstage coupled. No caps. Less than half price
"Live free or die"
I suppose you're correct about people playing around with them - but those people probably buy the kits to begin with no? That is why I said it makes sense on the kits to be 1 year because owners may do stupid things and then try and blame AN.
But on finished goods? I doubt too many people are tweaking those.
One way to increase used values is to have a long warranty - which is no doubt why Bryston resale is so high.
I suppose something telling to me was that Response Audio puts out a 5 year warranty on AN DACs and Preamps (though interestingly not on power amps??) and if they can offer it why can't the maufacturer? Response Audio says that they have so few returns that they can give a 5 year warranty.
AN is doing fine enough with a 1 year warranty so who is to argue with them - I'm just saying it would be an area to look at when you look at most of the competitors. if you claim to make the best transformers and parts then a warranty is one way to back it up and stick it to competitors. Like I say if Antique SOund Labs can do it selling $1200 heavy hand built point to point wiring integrated amps (using medicore parts) - then surely AN selling $4,000 integrated amps can do the same - I know labour is more in the UK but...
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