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In Reply to: RE: Will ANKits build the Kits? posted by RGA on December 29, 2007 at 21:52:13
RGA,
I remember you posting before and stating that the factory speakers sound better than the kits. Why would you want the kit now? Is it the hemp driver?
just curious...
I am looking at the DAC kits. The speakers are different because kit builders can;t match what AN does at the factory in my view with the heat cooling cabinet making and matching techniques.
But the amps and Dacs I don't see why these would be any different than factory models.
They are. Factory units are using different circuits /topologies and magnetics. This is a marketing strategy and I find it perfectly understandable. One may find that kits sound better than finished products although "popular belief" is other way around;)
Regards, L
Just thought I would chime in here regarding kits and finished products.
Basically AudioNote sells finished products through dealers all over the world - the kits were something that AudioNote started in their early days and it helped the company quite a bit - with the success of the finished products and the support and logistics of managing the kit business - AudioNote was prepared to stop selling kits around 2003 - Around this time I came on the scene and felt that it would be wonderful to continue with the kits , working closely with AudioNote and managing the whole business - I "inherited" the kit1 , dac1.1 and the original AN pre-amp kit. These products allowed DIY'ers to get an AudioNote sound at a lower price point- Obviously the kit business has grown , the product line has expanded - we are borrowing circuits in some cases from the finished products ( M2 power supplies , M3 phono , M3 Line) , we have designed new circuits & transformers( AN engineering that is) and we have packaged up products that have a great price/ performance ratio
roughly following along the lines of the finished product expansion. The reason the kit business has been able to grow has been from all the feedback from DIY'ers all over the world , the requests , suggestions and the kit business model is to try and provide product for everyone out there that wants to build their own high end audio. We dont want to map products directly from finished to kits - first of all they would be very difficult to build - take a look inside an M3 finished product some time!
and it would not be a good business strategy for AudioNote - We are kind of lucky that we have a kit business with great products at relatively affordable pricepoints so that any one can experience ultra high end audio!
Regards
Brian Smith
would be (and in fact is) a good field for AN Gurus to try some "kinky" ideas in the kits which would not be :
" a good business strategy for AudioNote " finished products but otherwise are superb audio solutions.
Happy New Year
L
AN designin team (I only know Andy Grove)and possibility for them to try something different with kits. Regards, L
I think if you come up with some upgrades for Audio Note they would listen. The gurus in BC who bought the kits and turntables made some adjustments - Peter liked some and didn't like some.
I don't think Audio Note is under much of a cost consideration - one guy building speakers offered up an idea for a cabinet made of a completely different material and while I have not seen that come to production - Peter was paying attention. Who knows he may be reading this forum and that fellow's 2.1 upgrade idea. I understand that there is even a headphone amp being contemplated. Perhaps the discussions here led to that notion.
A year or so ago, I received a letter from Peter Qvortrup that a headphone amp KIT was in the works. At the time, i was just getting into headphones.
Now, 4 amps and several head meet-ups later, I am not surprised that this product has not seen the light of day as the headphone crowd is composed about 90% of kids with Ipod sources and no money. Also, with few exceptions the whole market - including the very high end - is dominated by very small (1-person) producers with cult-like followings.
Why bother? The business is small anyway. Personally, I would welcome a kit product if it could compete sonically with Single Power products.
A devoted cult follower.
Greetings from the sunny Brønshøj riveria on the banks of the lovely Utterslev Mose
you would think that they could simply offer it as an option on their amps. Say an OTO Phono SE with headphone output.
One of the dealers uses the OTO as a headphone amp for the AKG 1000. Which would be interesting. I use the outputs of my OTO into the ASL MG HEAD to my Senns and that works very well and very quiet (I was expecting buzz or hums but dead silent).
It may be that Peter feels that there are good headphone amps (or good enough) already on the market.
Still I would love to see AN Headphones with AN Head amp. I'd like little mini AN E Birch cabinets on my head.
I started with a factory-made AN DAC 2.1x. First thing I did, was upgrade PS (L-C-L-C), and changed caps and resistors. Then I built a separate mains for the analogue board - and found that my new mains, smaller in size, and supplying higher current to the twin 6922, B+ and filament, operated at lower temp than the factory mains (made by Anglia, it turns out) which was just supplying less than 1/3 ampere to the digital board, so I disassembled the AN provided mains (gauge 30-32, I think) and rewind with gauge 27. I also found out that there remained a lot of space in the bobbin so a made 9 turns/v as against the original's 6.4-6.5. The point is DIY can, and often does, exceed the performance of a factory unit. $200 or $300 makes a lot of difference if you're selling a bazillion units, but not much if you build just one. To AN's credit, theirs is probably the most convenient and the easiest to upgrade ... no trick circuits, everything traditional.
He is looking at one of the comonents now. The DAC kit not the speakers.
Bill"Build your system for yourself not the critics"
The top DAC 2.1 kit is something like $2k less than the one reviewed in enjoythemusic.com. Assuming it's pretty much the same thing then that's a lot of money - I could pay for a course in electronics and soldering and still be way ahead.
Isn't that the big question? And what does your brain say that these differences might be worth to you.
Greetings from the sunny Brønshøj riveria on the banks of the lovely Utterslev Mose
Hi RGA,
Happy new year!
I have some comments not directly addressed to you but in general to those for whom kit building might look somewhat scary/expensive/daunting adventure.
I dont think you need to have any background in electronics (other than maybe the Ohm's law :-)
To acquire the soldering skills you may do some very inexpensive small Velleman kits (Google "Velleman kits").
I did the Kit1 after several Velleman kits, and went on to do the DAC2.1 and MM phono stage. I consider the Kit1 build process as the best adventure I have ever gone through. Just make sure you read the manuals. The people from the AN Kits forum and Brian do wonders when you need help. Ironically, the Velleman kits are more difficult as they are tiny.
The only danger is kit building is very highly addictive.
Regards, Zuheyr
I was actually thinking of doing the Dac Kit 1 because it is not too expensive and it would be a first kit. I am in need of a source upgrade. I have been working backwards from speaker AN J/Spe, to OTO and now the Kit. I don't want a one box player and the Finished versions are out of my range.
But the Dac 2.1 is not a whole lot more than the Dac 1 so... I'm coming back t Canada in April and I may be in the Ottawa area on Vacation to visit friends - I'd really like to hear the difference before I decide which one to get.
I want to go to Toronto to see a few baseball games as well. Pretty sure AN Kits is in this province someplace.
Soldering irons I used way back in high school. I like the idea of making it myself and learning something in the process.
I could buy the Dac 1 and then down the road anti-up for a higher end AN Dac and use the Dac 1 in a second system - and if I like building it the second system might have a few more kits.
Hmmm...talking myself into it. Hahaha.
This is very good indeed. One can start with the simpler to build unit and then upgrade. I was wondering why there was a bigger case option.
More convincing myself.
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