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In Reply to: REVIEW: Sonic Frontiers Line 1 Preamplifier (Tube) posted by krisjan on February 28, 2006 at 12:07:24:
There is also the SE version of each preamp that you mentioned. I have the Line 2 (non SE version) and think that any of the six models is a steal at what they sale for used. I will probably buy a used Line 1 for another system. Something that you may be interested in doing is replacing the two Cirrus Logic CS3310 digital volume control chips with two Burr Brown PGA2311PA digitally-controlled analog audio volume control integrated circuits. The PGA2311 did not exist when the SF Line X of preamplifiers were designed and they are far superior. You can go to their websites and compare them. The PGA2311 is a drop-in replacement for the CS3310 and cost less than $10 each from Digi-Key. In all but the earliest SF Line X of preamplifiers these two chips are socketed so it's a 15 minute job to remove the cover, pop them out and put in the new PGA2311 chips. I'm not the type that upgrades my equipment but this is so easy and worthwhile and cheap! It's the best value upgrade you'll ever make to the SF preamp.
Follow Ups:
I have had a brief exchange with Kal Rubinson (Stereophile) concerning this Tweak. Since he was the one person I thought would be able to give reliable input. He referenced a visit with Chris @ SF and his comments that the voltage source needed to be improved to make the PGA2310 or PGA 2311 swap worth the change. In spite of the thin unpositive comments from SF, I'm still interested in making the change for myself to see what the outcome sounds like in my Line 3.Sonic Frontiers Line Series are so well built, I'm lead to believe replacing and older design IC with a newer design would be like upgrading the chip in my car (which I'm very happy with having done by the way).
Like the seller on AGon says, If you don't like it all you have to loose is the shipping costs.
The seller also mentioned that the two PGA IC's made the presentation more forward with
the 2310 and laid back with the 2311, I ordered both sets, for $45 what have you got to loose?
MDavis,Thanks for the tip. I just ordered a pair of PGA2311As to try out in my Line 3SE. It should be interesting to hear the difference (if any).
I own the SF Line 1SE. If I replace the chip mentioned, what kind of improvement might I expect?
You would need to replace both the CS3310 chips. SF Line preamps are fully balanced and use two. Dynamics, transparency and detail especially at lower volumes.This is from a post on Audiogon:
Drop-in upgrade to CS3310 volume control
I'm surprised that searches here and audio asylum make no mention of the Burr Brown PGA2311 chip that's been available for as much as a year now. It's a drop-in replacement to the 10-year-old Crystal CS3310 volume controller chip used in many fine preamps of the past 8 years. Chip design moves forward so it's no surprise a better-sounding version would come from Burr Brown.I just put a pair into my Sonic Frontiers Line 1 SE (it's fully balanced thus requiring two chips) and the results were a noticeable improvement, perhaps the best $11 (each) you could spend. At least Sonic Frontiers makes it easy as the chips are socketed and it took less than 5 minutes to swap them. So for all you Line 1/2/3 owners out there it's a no-brainer. I can't say if all the other preamps that use the 3310 have it socketed or soldered, or if you'll hear the same improvements from it that I did.
I heard a greater sense of presence and a bit more detail. And, notably, a wider deeper soundstage. Kinda like upgrading to a much better interconnect from the same mfg, but a whole lot cheaper! I ordered from Digi-Key, it's a normally stocked item.
Anybody know why this hasn't gotten any attention or reports until now? My thanks to Steve McCormack for bringing this to my attention during a discussion of my power amp upgrade. This new chip is the basis for his own RLD-1 preamp SMc Audio upgrades.
Sdecker 11-22-04Three other people as "testimonials" (for what it's worth!) from a guy that sells the chips on Audiogon:
"I don't know the first thing about electronics but this was the easiest thing I've ever done. I just unscrewed the cover, popped out the old Crystal chips and put in the PGA2311's and put the cover back on...man what a difference! My Line 3 sounds like a whole new pre-amp! My audio buddies thought I had a whole new preamp!"...
"Most tweaks give you a marginal upgrade in sound but not this! It was so noticeable when I turned up the volume, the sound jumped out at me...the bass was tighter and the soundstage widened up well beyond my speakers...for $20, this was a no-brainer! Thanks Sound-bites!!"
"I never would have thought about how much those old Crystal chips actually limited the sound of my SF Line 1 preamp. When I checked the specs of the PGA chips they are so much better in comparison to the stock chips,...MUCH lower distortion and MUCH more dynamic range...I think that was the biggest part that made the difference. My CD collection sounds like a whole new experience, and to think: I was going to spend about $5K on a new BAT preamp just to get the sound I got for $20!!!"
nt
Onward and upward is a path to follow. Order a pair, at this cost, the only tweak cheaper I've
tried is rim painting a CD!!! My SF L3 is in for a tune-up.
MDavis - thanks for the tip. For now, I am very pleased with this preamp but perhaps I will do this mod in the future. It sounds easy enough. Thanks again!
Mark
.. but my Line 1 is not socketed for the digital volume control. Grrrrrrrrr. Currently seeing how difficult it would be to socket them.Did you ever compare the PGA2310 vs the PGA2311?
It'll be a little bit more work to unsolder the chips of course but still doable and worth it. I think it would be even be worth it to pay a tech or someone to remove the two chips and solder in sockets if you don't know how. I don't think they'd charge a whole lot.No, but there should be no sonic difference between the PGA2310 and PGA2311. The only difference is that the PGA2310 will accept a higher operating voltage that's not required for the Sonic Frontiers preamps.
I have decided I am going to do this... but I am not sure what sockets to buy. Any idea?
I don't recall if the SF PCB is multilayer or not. I don't think so so DIGI-KEY Part# ED3316-ND should work fine. You would need 2 @ $.83ea (see link). If the board is multilayer then you MAY need a little bit longer pin length (part# ED60010-ND @ $1.13ea). You could also just go to Radio Shack and get 16 pin dual-in-line (DIP) sockets with open [or closed] frame and solder tail termination for a PCB. Then if the pins aren't long enough (about 0.125" standard), take them back and get the longer ones (about 0.170" multilayer).
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