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In Reply to: RE: Stereo vs mono subwoofer output and the Parasound P5 preamp posted by tketcham on October 10, 2016 at 16:45:57
You can optimize each sub, but on strong side signals they won't be able to "back" each other up, the way mono subs would. On the other hand, with bass traps and EQ, it's quite likely you won't notice much of a difference anyway.
I'm not sure what you mean about the stereo imaging suffering. Make yourself happy.
Best,
Erik
Follow Ups:
I'm not really sure what you mean by mono subs "backing" each other up.
When I mention stereo imaging I'm referring to the placement of instruments and singers within the soundstage. I'm one of those audiophiles that enjoys the perception of a full soundstage image, particularly with acoustic performances. Bass frequencies are more omnidirectional, especially at the lowest frequencies produced by a subwoofer, but at the upper range of subwoofer output, depending on where the cross-over range is set, there can be spatial clues that contribute to imaging.
Right now my mains are running full range with the subs rolled off at 60 Hz. What I'm trying to figure out is how to experiment with limiting the low frequencies produced by the mains and raising the roll off frequency of the subs to perhaps 70 to 80 Hz. My understanding is that subwoofers can have harmonic output that extends well into the directional frequencies so there are likely to be even more spatial clues within and above that new higher frequency range. If I use summed/mono subwoofer outputs I may be missing those clues.
Or not. I'm just doing my homework and asking questions before spending money on experiments.
Regards,
Tom
So, two subwoofers, playing the same signal in a room can be flatter as they fill in the nulls and cancel the peaks. EQ and bass traps should still be used. That's what I mean by "backing up" or rather I should have said "filling in."
And, this is what I mean by properly integrated. VERY FEW sub users have properly integrated subs. PROPERLY integrated you could not tell 1 or 2 subs in a room, so long as they were not distoring, nor could you tell where they are coming from. However, since most listeners have never heard properly integrated subs, they think I'm talking about Bigfoot or the Chupacabra. They haven't heard it so don't believe it's real. These are also the same who think a sub can't sound as good as a planar or ESL.
My suggestion is, as always, start with 1 sub. Spend the time to integate it well, and see if you still want a second. You may find yourself so tired out after one the second seems like too big of a hassle. :)
Best,
Erik
Thanks for the advice, Erik but it's too late, I've already spent years getting things to where I like them. '-)
I've gone from a single, passive, down-firing driver/radiator to a single, passive, ported, front-firing driver to a single, powered, sealed, front-firing driver to a pair of powered, sealed, front-firing drivers with built-in DSP. I've tried subs in corners, front walls, back walls, side walls, inboard and outboard of the mains, built-in subwoofer speaker-level and line-level cross-overs, and every possible combination therein. I've read books and articles and forum discussions and used acoustic modeling to learn what I can about speaker placement. After all that, I believe that I now have a set up that sounds about as good as I can get without using external cross-overs or DSP. The subwoofers compliment, not dominate, the mains.
But it's that last bit of refinement that I'm after and am wanting to get other perspectives on integrating dual subwoofers: stereo vs mono?
Apparently Parasound believes that dual mono subwoofers are all that is needed for the cross-over feature in a preamp costing $1100. I'm wondering how much more money is needed to get stereo subwoofer capabilities and is the expense worth it?
Regards,
Tom
FWIW, I have experimented (and still do) with multiple subs but have never found an advantage for stereo configuration unless the main speakers are small and are incapable of significant output below 120/120Hz. In fact, the advantages already offered for the use of mono subs is granted and there are advantages to having them EQ-ed in mono, too (in most cases).If you really are committed to pursuing this, I would recommend one of the miniDSP 2x4 devices to handle crossover and EQ in a vastly more competent way.
Edits: 10/12/16
Hi, Kal,
Thanks for the insight and advice. My Dynaudio Contour S1.4 speakers are reasonably good down to perhaps 60-80 Hz and I'd like to see if I can improve their performance by removing the workload below that using a cross-over. I don't like the results using the subs cross-over thus my interest in the Parasound P5 preamp or Integrated amp.
The miniDSP Dirac Live analog unit caught my attention based on a recent discussion you've had on another forum. For $800 I could have not only the ability to set the lower limits of my mains but also fine-tune the overall output to account for room acoustics. I've done just about everything I can without spending a bunch of money on external cross-overs and room treatments. The Dirac Live unit seems like a very reasonably priced alternative.
Any thoughts on the benefits of spending more money for the convenience of the Dirac Live vs miniDSP unit?
Regards,
Tom
DiracLive will not do crossovers. However, there are miniDSP units that will do DL and crossovers.
This looks like it would work perfectly for what I want to accomplish. And it's half the price of the P5. :-)
DDRC-24 for 2.1 or 2.2 configurationThanks!
Tom
Edits: 10/12/16
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