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Looking for opinions on this amp that got rave reviews in TAS. I heard someone say it is a little lean in the bass and would like to know what others think. The amp would be driving GE Triton Ones.
"You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to, so that when they turn their backs on you, you'll get the chance to put the knife in."
Roger Waters
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Matching amp with speakers is always important to get right. Most Magtech owners likely run Maggies, Martin Logans, or other difficult to drive speakers.
I had a Magtech when I used Maggie 1.7s. I thought the match was perfect and the amp never got hot, maybe just warm.
When I switched to another speaker the matchup was no longer great so I sold the Magtech, going with a tube amp. I'll still running tubes.
You might want to consider that approach, given that you don't need to worry about driving the bass with that amp. At 92dB effeciency these speakers could be driven by even moderately powered tube amps.
I don't think the amount of power the Magtech has would be a good match. You wouldn't be ever getting into the "sweet spot" of the amp's output.
I tried the speakers with a Rogue 100wpc tube amp and wasn't thrilled with the results.
"You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to, so that when they turn their backs on you, you'll get the chance to put the knife in."
Roger Waters
I have a Magtech amp driving Magnepan 3.7 speakers and the sound is fabulous, but keep in mind that it runs extremely HOT, even after a short period of use. Too hot to touch. Not surprising since it requires 2400 watts to operate and is delivering 900 watts into 4 ohms. Sanders recommends that it be kept ON all the time but I don't do that. Make sure you give it lots of space for ventilation.
...as 2400 Watts, IF it's connected to a branch circuit capable of delivering 20 amps and IF IF IF it's actually delivering around 900 Watts per channel into 4-Ohm loads. I suspect that most speakers that received 900 Watts of power for more than a fraction of a second wouldn't work after that.
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Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
Edits: 10/08/16
See the link below ...
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
NT
Interesting. I've owned the Magtech since December 2011 and it never ran "stone cold". It always ran warm/hot after an hour or so of operation. Admittedly, it has gotten hotter over time so possibly there is a voltage regulator problem. Having said that, the Magtech is a super-performer and the best amp I've ever heard.
As an aside, in another room I have Magnepan 1.7s being driven by a Parasound Halo integrated amp (270 watts into 4 ohms). The sound is excellent and the amp remains comfortably warm during operation. I tried matching the Parasound with the Magnepan 3.7s but it was no match for the dynamics delivered by the Magtech.
Well, this thread has gotten way off topic and I'm sure the original poster has long since moved on.
Hi Charles!Sorry, there was a misstatement in my typing. Roger's designs use advanced transistors which have very low bias points, so they IDLE very cool compared to other amps.
However, during play they will heat up almost as much as any other A/B biased amp. Maybe a little cooler, but there's a reason why they have such massive heat sinks. They certainly do not stay as cool as Class-D amps will.
Best,
Erik
Edits: 10/09/16
OK, now it's coming back to me.
Playing ESL Panels, the Sanders amps DO run cooler than normal. Because they are essentially capacitors, the max current flow occurs at 0 Volts. This is where the Sanders amps are designed to excel.
Playing dynamic speakers, they should heat up normally-ish.
Thanks Erik! Lots of good information about the amp I've been enjoying for the last 5 years. Tomorrow I'll contact Sanders Sound Systems about sending it in for diagnosis.
This whole thing about "stone cold" is becoming somewhat confusing. "Stone cold" = cold, warm, slightly warm ??
The intent was to warn you of a possible issue with the amp..... if it is to indeed run "stone cold". Not doubting your word that it runs hot.
If you contact Magtech about the heat problem please let us know.
I'd be curious to find out what Magtech has to say. I'd also like to know if the amp sounds even better (or not as good) once any repair work is done.
The amp should not be hot to the touch. I sent an email through this page to Charles to send the amp in for warranty repair.
Angela Sanders
Sanders Sound Systems
If only all manufacturers were this helpful and responsive.
No, I haven't moved on yet. I am also looking at the new Spread Spectrum Son of Ampzilla. Not sure if it comes in silver though.
"You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to, so that when they turn their backs on you, you'll get the chance to put the knife in."
Roger Waters
The Triton Ones have Powered subwoofers so I would expect your would work just fine...
I'm worried about the synergy between the two.
"You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to, so that when they turn their backs on you, you'll get the chance to put the knife in."
Roger Waters
...synergy?
The only way to discover that is to try numerous amps with your speakers.
The Sanders Magtech appears to be very similar to the older Innersound power amplifiers. See my review of the Innersound ESL-300 power amplifier here at AA for all the details.
It's been several years since I owned the ESL-300 (original) so this is from rough memory. The new Magtech, if anything, should have a much stiffer power supply, and therefore even more bass.Having said that, I don't quite agree with the online reviews. Ayre is slightly dark, Innersound cool, but not lean.
Innersound is super quiet (why aren't all amps this quiet) and does run relatively efficiently. However, I never warmed up to it's midrange and treble. It just didn't do it for me. I owned Focal Profiles at the time. It was significantly more clear and more powerful than my little Sumo amp, but that speaker has terrible and unnecessary low impedance. The closest I can think of, from my emotional memory, was the ESL amps sounded like older generation ARC tube amps. Analytical, but in a way a lot of people (not me) loved.
I later ended up with Parasound A23's, and then ICEPower based amps and am quite happy. I would love to have a pair of Ayre monoblocks, but Innersound... (shoulder shrug ) I would have to find one on my doorstep to really want to evaluate them again.
Best,
Erik
Edits: 10/04/16
I went the OPPOSITE way! What a crackup.
I had an ICE based integrated, the PSAudio GCC250 and swapped THAT for a PAIR of the A23 by Parasound. I eventually didn't like the HIGHS as done by the ICE setup.
The Parasound really does WELL with my panels. Next step will be a line-level crossover, probably a MiniDSP.
My 'aspirational' amp? Probably a PAIR of PASS XA30.5
Too much is never enough
Guys, can we keep on topic? I wouldn't ever consider a class D amp. IMHO, they are not ready for prime time. I have heard class D with both the Hypex and B & O modules and the treble almost rips my ears off. I am interested in the Magtech only.
"You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to, so that when they turn their backs on you, you'll get the chance to put the knife in."
Roger Waters
Wow, Stereo5, under what circumstances did you listen to them? :)
My ICEPower250 ASP's do NOT sound like that at all. I have two speaker pairs I listen to, one based on a ring radiator, the other AMT's. Both flat to past 20 kHz. Well, I think the AMT dips a little. Point is, they have plenty of bandwidth above 20kHz and no one has ever said that about them.
By contrast, I usually feel that way about older Thiel (when it was really Thiel), Triangle and Golden Ear.
Blindfolded I could not tell the difference between these and my Parasound A23s.
Best,
Erik
Sorry.
To say a few words about the Magtech? I heard 'em at the THENewport show for 2 or 3 years. ALWAYS a terrific presentation. The bench amp with the cover off looked Well Constructed and was quite heavy.
The amp being shown with the Sanders 'Stats tells me it has a very robust power supply and is capable of driving some very reacitive loads at low impedances.
Now? How's it sound to YOU? I'm not rich or even 'wealthy' so I can't afford 'em, but if I could, it's on the short list. Magtech and Maggies apparently is a 'good match'.
Too much is never enough
That IS pretty funny. :)
There was a difference though. In both cases I am driving the amps by a Parasound P7. With the PS Audio unit, the amps had some sort of preamp before the amps.
"Naked" the ICEPower 250 ASP amplifier modules to my ears sounded identical to the Parasounds.
I'm sure if I was dealing with that integrated I probably would have ended up in the same place.
ICEPower based amps are usually ridiculously expensive. I got a batch of them super cheap, which is why in my case they were actually far less expensive than the A23.
Best,
Erik
Best,
Erik
The PSAudio integrated used a proprietary 'Gain Cell' as the input section.
When I went the Parasound route, I ALSO got the new P5 preamp.
The 4ohm characteristics of the ICE amp was what I THINK got me. I was never satisfied with the highs. I suspect some interaction with my Maggies. And I messed with setup for a LONG time. Tweeters in/out and pole piece front/back. The frequency rolloff causes phase shift and almost no matter what, I had picket-fencing (audible)
Too much is never enough
I was never satisfied with the highs. I suspect some interaction with my Maggies.
Or, perhaps it is due to the use of boatloads of negative feedback necessitated by switching amps - while John Curl's designs are of the minimal FB design.
From my perspective, that is the Achilles' Heel of switchers.
Well, since almost all switching amps use negative feedback (as do the Sanders amps I'm aware of) that's kind of difficult to prove or disprove.
Also, most amps with zero global feedback still have some local feedback, which is what digital amps use, I believe.
Also, I'm just not convinced negative feedback in and of itself is a bad thing, but buy what you like.
Disconnect the wires to your tweeter and watch it go into oscillation ...
Maybe that's it. My current speakers go to 4 Ohms in the base but around 10 in the treble.
I doubt it is simply impedance which would cause a problem unless it drops to <2.5 ohms.
BUT, what might cause problems is the reaction of the amp to a highly reactive load.
Just a guess.
Too much is never enough
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