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Hi all, I'm pretty new to getting into more than entry level gear and recently purchased my first set of good headphones (HD 650) and my first headphone amp (schiit magni 2 uber). The set up I added these to consists of a Pro Ject Debut III that is stock and a BBE FJB 200x phono pre amp. After listening for a bit and doing a burn in on the phones I feel like I may not be pushing enough power to these headphones. With the headphone amp about 2 oclock in the volume position and on hi gain I feel like I am just getting enough power for a decent listening level. I know the weak link in my set up is the phono pre amp so i'm wondering if this is my issue causing lack of volume or is related to something else? I know the HD 650's have a reputation for being a bit power hungry but many people recommended the magni 2 pairing. thanks for the help!
Edits: 09/23/16Follow Ups:
If you've got spare rotation on the volume control, you do NOT have a problem, unless you can't play loud enough at the end stop.
So, you don't need a new phono pre.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Have you tried another line level source to see how the volume level/position compares?
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
My own experience - the CD input is always louder.
The only other source that I've compared are straight from my iPod to the magni 2 headphone amp but I know without a DAC that the output may already be too low or am I wrong on that? Nevertheless the volume output is about the same as from my phono set up
Are you hooking up the iPod via headphone jack or does it doc with the headphone amp?
Also, might you have any of the following you can use as a source: tuner, CD player, DVD or Blu-ray player. Either of these would be a better source to experiment with.
You see where I'm going here? Trying to confirm if the phono amp turntable combo is indeed the culprit. Or that the setting at 2 o'clock is normal for all line source components.
Cheers!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
Much much thanks for everyone who has replied, at this point impedance and many of the other output ratings etc. are a bit like Chinese to me so the interpretation is a huge help. I guess at this point the question is what phono pre amp to look at for a budget of about $150. Not sure if this is the correct venue for that question but any tips are appreciated for sure.
Many choices here within your budget !
FWIW
The volume control is *not* like the gas pedal on your car. Turning the volume control up does not make the amp work harder; pushing the gas pedal *does* make the engine work harder.
The volume control *stops* signal from getting in. When all the way up, it lets the source signal enter the amp as is; when turned down, it reduces the level of the source.
The amplifier takes whatever signal comes in and amplifies it "x-times." It does that for a tiny signal, a middling signal, and a loud signal, up to its design limits. Signals of all levels get amplified the same amount. There is no gas pedal; just something to *stop* signal from getting in (the volume control.)
So, there is nothing wrong with 2 o'clock, or 3 o'clock. The only problem is if you are constantly dealing with the extremes, i.e. "all the way up" or "almost all the way down." When you get to the extremes, stereo volume pots tend to track badly, with one channel or the other louder. Also, when you're at the extremes, it's a sign that some component in the chain is badly matched to the component it feeds.
In my system (m/m cartridge, VTL Deluxe preamp, Manley 120's, Spica TC-50s/sub) LP playback is normally around 2 o'clock to fill a pretty big room, and 3 o'clock for loud.
WW
"A man need merely light the filaments of his receiving set and the world's greatest artists will perform for him." Alfred N. Goldsmith, RCA, 1922
I know that. The OP doesn't!
You might get some good answers for recommendable phono stages over on Vinyl Asylum.
In the meantine this one is a lot less than $150 yet has a very enthusiastic review by Michael Fremer and his readers over on Analogue Planet. "His readers" as he posted sound files of it and others in a similar price class for a blind comparison that could be voted on. It won hands down.
BTW, don't worry about the numbers, the specification is good especially considering the cost.
The best sounding inexpensive phono preamp that I've ever heard is the Yaqin MS-22B, but it cost me $200 on eBay. I think, you'd be hard pressed to find a decent sounding phono stage for less than $500 otherwise.I just built a Vacuum Tube Audio kit phono preamp that cost $710 for the kit and it sounds better than my Yaqin MS-22B. However, before buying the Vacuum Tube Audio kit, I bought two different $400 phono preamps that didn't sound as good as my Yaqin MS-22B, which has now been replaced by the newer model MS-23B.
Therefore, I think you're going to have to spend more than $150 on a phono stage. Furthermore, if the only reason you're buying a new phono stage is because you don't like the position of your volume control, you might as well save your money. Two O'clock is the optimum position for any volume control when listening to music. I once owned a Mark Levinson preamp that had different gain settings controlled by internal dip-switches. The manual said to set the dip-switches so the volume control was at one or two o'clock for normal listening.
Best regards,
John Elison
Edits: 09/23/16
2 o'clock is fine. This sounds like a classic eyes deciding instead of your ears.The OP is falling into a trap of his own design.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
I have looked but cannot find the relevant needed specification, input sensitivity, for this very basic phonostage. All I can find of relevance is that the the maximum output appears to be +10dB at 1% distortion which is not, how can I say, impressive. Given the cartridge's rated output of 4mV (nothing unusual BTW) I suspect that your diagnosis amy be correct.
The Schiit has a rated output of 320mW into 300 ohms (the Senn's impedence) which should be fine. Actually the Sennheisers are really not all that difficult to drive even given their high impedence unless you are talking portable devices. I use 600s which are broadly similar to the 650s.
So I think it may be worth your while looking at some other phonostages even if there is a more substantial cost involved.
However having the volume control at 2 o'clock is not , in itself, a problem. But if you are still feeling that there is something important missing, then it could be.
> With the headphone amp about 2 oclock in the volume position and on hi gain
> I feel like I am just getting enough power for a decent listening level.
I think that's perfect. It's only a problem if your listening level is too low with the volume control cranked all the way up.
Do you ever have to turn the volume control all the way up and still feel your listening level is not loud enough? If so, then you probably need a phono stage with more gain. However, if you can always find a satisfying listening level in all listening situations, your system is perfect in my opinion.
Best regards,
John Elison
.
It would also help to know what your cartridge is- if it is a Low Output Moving Coil, you may not have enough gain to amplify the signal to drive the amp to drive the speakers-
Not sure...
Happy Listening
The cartridge is a ortofon OM 5e which is a MM type. I've looked at the specs on it but I'm not sure what part of them are relevant to this scenario
Agreed- given the cart-
Happy Listening
you are likely not getting enough power. The Senns are high impedance phones. to properly drive them, you need about 30-40 watts of power into 8 ohms, which into 220ohms will translate in a few watts of power.
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