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In Reply to: RE: Are there REALLY any really good solid state amps under a grand? posted by Isaak J. Garvey on August 29, 2016 at 16:02:58
It depends what you mean by really good and what your expectations are. For home theater or background music or sound effects from a video game - sure.
For me - the Sugden A21a is the entry level standard - second hand you might get one for $1200. Then again you might not. But for me The Sugden is where really good begins.
Follow Ups:
... you are TRULY buying a used one. They run so hot that the remaining lifespan for a well-used A21 is a relatively short one.
"Better to burn out than to fade away" though.
Interesting - Where did you find the statistics that they had high failure rates. You'd think that since they've been selling for 49 years this would have been big news over the years?
Edits: 09/02/16
They might keep on running but do they keep on running "in spec", as they were surely designed to do *for a reasonable amount of time*?I'd expect that the output transistors and capacitors in a very hot running class A amp would degrade or drift off spec more quickly than those in a cool running amp. Wouldn't you?
Maybe it's just a myth that hot running amps don't last as long as cool running ones. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Edits: 09/03/16
I don't know - there are numerous tube amps that last 5 decades - and a dealer that sold class D told me that more than 50% of them fail within 5 years. And he sold $3,000 class D amps from a big name.
In theory you are correct - but then maybe if Sugden uses a very good part and the class D cool running amp uses Chinese made $0.01 chips that may be a deciding factor. The Sugden changed from 10 watts to 20 watts because better parts materials became available.
It's a tough decision but performance often requires a bit more work whether it be getting superior performance in audio but having to change tubes and deal with heat or whether it be replacing tires on a Ferrari more often than a Ford Focus - vastly superior performance might be worth it.
I remember my initial audition with my OTO and separates from Bryston. I'm Canadian - the Bryston is Canadian - it has a 20 year warranty and 160watts per channel and much more options being separates. The OTO came with a 1 year warranty, 10 watts, integrated. So it's a gamble to to go with the OTO when looking at all the surrounding aspects. Until the play button was pushed. So the "risk" outweighed the benefits. The OTO is 12 years old now and I have replaced one tube ($8). So does one take IMO vastly better sound quality for 12 years or sound that I would have sold in 6 months at a big loss for the benefit of having a 20 year warranty?
I think we would need to hear from Sugden dealers and owners as to how they have lasted over the years. I remember when the Sugden got 5 stars for sound and the Bryston B60 got 3 stars for sound in Hi-Fi CHoice's blind tests. So the decision was the same - do we choose 3 star sound to last 20 years or 5 star sound that may need some work after 10?
As long as I had the speakers to match and if the price was right.
The Bryston 2BLP dual mono amp puts out 60 watts per channel, sounds decent, and can be found on the used market for about half the price of a good second hand Sugden. I used to own one and would not hesitate to buy another if I needed an amp with slightly more guts. Not too clinical sounding, good bass oomph.
The Bryston 2B many people felt was the best "sounding" Bryston. In Canada you can usually get a 2B for $350 Canadian. A Sugden will still likely run at least $1k.
Even my old A48B was sold recently on a Canadian board for $500.
What speakers are we driving , to choose amplification without knowing the load is cart /horse mad ...
That's a good point. Personally, any speaker that can't be driven by the Sugden is likely going to be a speaker I will not like ("not like" being incredibly diplomatic).
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