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Please forgive me for not necessarily understanding all that I'm going to try to ask. For years, I've been somewhat happy with my Kef Reference 103/3 speakers, and Onkyo TX-SR605 AV Receiver and a couple other devices (Onkyo CD changer, SiriusXM receiver and an Ipod Classic) connected to the TX-SR605. The Kef speakers came with a "Kef Kube" back when I purchased them in 1988. Dumbed down, the Kef Kube is a bass boost equalizer made specifically for the Kef 103/3s and which, when originally bought, the Kube was connected via the tape loop on the Nakamichi receiver I once owned. The Kef Kube ceased working so I simply have been using the speakers without the Kube and while the speakers weren't as full and the deep bass I previously enjoyed wasn't there anymore, they still sounded darn good as compared to other stuff out there that I sampled. Only if I spent a small fortune could I get new speakers that would surpass my Kefs so I stuck with them despite not getting the full benefit from their design.
Fast forward to a few years ago and I started to try to educate myself a bit more on home theater systems and in doing so, learned (from Onkyo) that I was taking a "huge" risk that my Kef 103/3s, which are rated at 4 ohms, might cause damage to the TX-SR605 or vice versa because the TX-SR605 was not equipped to drive speakers rated at less than 8 ohms. So I began looking at new receivers and, in the process, also started looking around for a new Kube in order to get the most out of my speakers. Having no luck finding a used Kef Kube and learning from Kef that they do not make the Kubes anymore, I was left basically one option, purchase an equalizer to mimic the Kube.
From reading through several audio forums, I learned that A number of similarly situated Kef owners had success with replacing the Kube with the Behringer Ultra-curve Pro 2496 DEQ. At that point, I pretty much decided that that was the best solution for my Kube problem. Also, I decided on buying the Onkyo TX-RZ800 AV Receiver as well.
I then began to research how best to connect the Eq to my new receiver. I soon learned that once I connected the TX-RZ800 to the Behringer, I would need to connect the Eq to a power amp. Changing directions and after some research, I decided on the Outlaw Model 5000 power amplifier.
Now feeling pretty comfortable with all my choices, I went back to checking out how I was going to connect all this stuff.
Based upon my research, here's what I'm thinking—I should connect the Onkyo tX-RZ800 front pre-outs to the Behringer EQ (it's a two channel equalizer, perfect for my Kef 103/3s). The Behringer Eq should then be connected to the front inputs on the Outlaw. The remaining 3 channels can be connected directly between the pre-outs on the TX-RZ800 and the Outlaw's inputs with all speakers originating from the amp. Here's where I run into some problems. I'm so used to just two types of connections, RCA or digital optical, that the specs on the behringer threw me a bit of a curve. The Behringer Eq only has XLR inputs. It has an ax RCA output so I can connect it to the Outlaw amp but my question is, how do I connect the TX-RZ800 to the Behringer Eq? I think, but am not certain, I can buy an XLR to RCA (female) adapter and then run the RCA cable from the fronts on the receiver to the adapter which then connects to the Behringer through one of the XLR inputs. It would be great if the questions ended there but then, as I'm doing more reading, I begin to read that balanced connections are preferred and to do that, I'd need to add at least one more component, an unbalanced to balanced converter box or boxes. So if I make a balanced connection between the receiver and the Eq, what difference will that make given the fact that the only way to connect the Outlaw amp is through unbalanced RCA inputs? I could buy a more expensive amp that has XLR inputs but is it really worth it given my application? I can't seem to find an answer to the question, for a standard home theater setup, does it really matter if you use unbalanced (RCA) or balanced (XLR) connections? The cable runs I'm looking at are no more than 3 feet long, not long at all. Another question I have, can you use another converter box in order to get a balanced connection between the Eq and the Outlaw amp even though the amp doesn't have any XLR inputs? I think the answer is no because the source (Eq) may be sending the signal through the XLR output, but once you convert or change the input to the standard RCA jacks, the connection becomes unbalanced, correct? Finally, the receiver has a dedicated subwoofer out so I'll not need the amp to drive my sub, not sure that matters but it seemed that this issue with balanced versus unbalanced connections appeared to be associated with discussions regarding subwoofer connections.
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Mike 371
Follow Ups:
OK you're pretty close but I will give you my opinion on this.First I assume since you are running 5ch through an HT receiver you also have a subwoofer. If not you can get a lot better bass by spending the money you paid for the Outlaw and the Behringer on a sub or subs than they could ever help you get from just the Kefs.
There is other stuff going on too. HT receivers have a crossover built in. Are you running the front Kefs as full range or large or small? This makes a big difference in the bass response. I didnt see you mention this.
Finally if for some reason you do end up using the Behringer and the Outlaw you should really connect it via its digital in from the HT receivers digital out. But this is only if you can set the Onkyo receivers digital output to 2ch PCM. You'll have to read the manual.The Behringer has 1/4" outputs besides xlr so you can use quarter inch to RCA cables going to the Outlaw. Don't worry about using xlr/balanced there really is zero benefit in your set up. Some say even in the best scenario the benefit of balanced is small or none. You'll hear many opinions on this.
The bottom line? Forget getting the Kefs to have the best bass possible. Use subs for that. If you are already running sub's properly setup and had the perfect bass coming from the Kefs with the cube you probably couldn't hear the differnce anyway.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Edits: 08/05/16 08/05/16 08/05/16
Thanks for the responses. Awe-d-o-file, I just received the Onkyo TX-RZ800 and have not yet read the manual, I didn't even think about setting the speaker size... I'm not sure which setting I should choose, I'm a novice with this stuff, have basically learned everything I know over the last couple weeks.
I do have a "cheap" Polk PSW10 sub but am planning on upgrading to a SVS SB2000 once I have the funds. Maybe that's where I should start instead of with the power amp and equalizer. Other opinions still welcome.
btw, seems like most out there agree with you, there's no real benefit to balanced over unbalanced for my application. Time to read the owners manual to see what I can and can't do with this new HT Receiver.
I found it in the advanced section of the manual. I recommend you read the manual thoroughly. There are crossover settings and set the receiver to operate at 5.1, cross the Kefs at 80 and the center and rears at 120 to start and go from there. Also if the Kefs are four ohm use the Onkyos 6 ohm setting. Good luck.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Well, like every well thought out plan, the plans have hit a snag. Given the size of the Onkyo TX-RZ800, I have very little room for the power amp and Eq... putting either outside the storage space isn't an option (wife's rules) so I'm on to plan B.
The Behringer Ultra-Curve Pro is 1.75" and I have about 6" available so I'm looking at slim stereo amps. Once again, I'm drawn to Outlaw, the monoblock 2200. I'm also considering the Crown XLI 1500, but that seems to be a live music amp, not necessarily good for home audio. According to the specs, it'll all fit and I have extra ventilation so air flow and heat dispersement shouldn't be a problem. My question is simple, since the Outlaw monoblock amps (I'd have ot purchase 2, one for each speaker) have an RCA and XLR inputs, do I connect 2 XLR cables, one from the Behringer to the first monoblock amp and then repeat (or simply connect a single RCA cable from the Eq's left and right channels with one going to each of the amps)? If I'm understanding things correctly, I then run the speaker wires to each of my front speakers, correct?
I'm not ignoring the power subwoofer suggestion, I intend to improve that situation as well by replacing the Polk PSW10, just taking my time, learning as much as I can and considering all my options. Replacing my receiver alone made a tremendous difference in the sound of my Kef's.
I figure I can connect the fronts through the Eq and the monoblock amps and then connect everything else to the TX-RZ800 and let that drive the other speakers in my system.
If you don't have a tape loop outin then that could be hard to add the equalizer. Or if you can put it between a preamp and amp that would work but you are using a receiver. Try putting it between the source and receiver.
I got sleepy trying to read that post three times. Sorry???
charles
My experience is with the KEF KUBEs for the 102, 104/2 and 107/2. I use a 107/2 KUBE between the preamp output and power amp. As I understand it, the KUBE provides external equalization more commonly found in passive circuitry internal to speakers as a way of enhancing speaker efficiency. The KUBE is thus more than a bass booster. Some argue for eliminating the KUBE; KEF claims that speakers designed to be used with a KUBE are not accurate without it. In any case, the KUBE effects more than just bass. Has the OP tried to get the non-functional KUBE repaired? That would seem an obvious first step.
OTOH, setting the front LR to small and shifting LF to a pair of subs seems a not-to-bad work-around. I'd recommend a pair of used Velodyne HGS-10s with an SMS-1 bass manager. That's what I use with my LS50s with fine result.
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