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In Reply to: RE: SS integrated amp under $6k? posted by ggking7 on July 03, 2016 at 12:17:29
First no SS amp is going to sound as good as the better SET amps - for one you can tailor the sound of SET amps with various tubes which you can't do with SS amps - including all the ones mentioned in this thread.But hey we have to make do - we all have to make compromises based on a whole pile of factors from room quality (for instance if your room is made of wood you have a strike against you) if walls are plaster strike 2, we have budgets or you have a WAF to deal with, positioning issues and of course features, aesthetics and budgets to deal with.
Frankly, I would not play into the spend more than you have to with SS - SS just doesn't sound good enough to warrant paying high prices for. Especially when you have speakers that are close to 100dB sensitive and as a single driver really don't output a tonne of bass. So you don't exactly need a big power SS amplifier.
My go to SS amp for sound quality on a budget tends to be Sugden but because it is a pure class A amplifier - it runs hotter than some tube amps and can be just a big a fire hazard. (Ahem Krell recall).
And once you get to the typical class A/B integrated amp - there is a sameness that pervades everything - none of the reviewers in a blind level matched session is going to be able to tell most of these torroid transformer using A/B amps apart. Has anyone ever? This doesn't mean you have to buy into blind level matched tests but it does at least illustrate that if differences do in fact exist they are not particularly noticeable.
Further, you can save buckets of cash here by going separates. Used SS power amps usually go for a tiny fraction of their initial prices - because SS is generally worthless the second you walk out the door. You can buy $2k power amps for $200 on the second hand market - the exceptions are companies like Bryston that offer 20 year warranties but it is fairly easy to buy a $2200 3B SST for $700 Canadian with 10+ years left on the warranty. So it's still 1/3 the MSRP.
You could pick up a Bryston B60 which uses the 2B LP amplifier stage (one of the better musically sounding power amps from them) and it would be more than enough amp for your speakers. You could probably pick up a 2B LP for $400 and then find a preamp as well for relative peanuts.
Put the bulk of the money to the preamp which accounts for more of the "sound" you ultimately get. Maybe from First Watt or Music First Audio. They have the Classic V2 selling for $4k US and the best thing about Music First Audio is that you don't plug them in - they are passive transformer coupled stages.
I have been interested in them for awhile because I travel around the world and many amplifiers don't allow voltage switching.
But I need to hear one first before I opt to buy one - and unfortunately you have to buy first. But if you are in North America you can actually listen first.
But for $4,000 for the preamp and going for a relatively small power am in a second hand 2BLP for peanuts - it may in fact take up less space than an integrated. And Bryston is a professional grade amp - you can leave them on for a decade in all likelihood. The 2B is also a warmer sounding amp than most of the rest of their offerings. UHF noted that it was their favorite sounding amplifier from Bryston.
The Bryston can hold the fort down until you can get a second hand First Watt Sit amplifier. You can easily flip Bryston amps at virtually no cost because they're usually easy to sell. First Watt second hand amps in Hong Kong are selling for less than half the new retail price. I was tempted to try one - unfortunately I don't as yet have a preamp.
Lastly there is a guy on another forum who is saying that class D amplifiers based on the TPA 3116 chip that sell for $100 beat $20,000 SET and SS amplifiers and that the audio press doesn't mention it because it will cripple their livelihood. It may be a conspiracy theory but for a $100 it might be worth a try - parts express sells many amplifiers using these chips - they are usually low power but your speakers can take them. Hey you never know right? $5900 left over to buy a couple of vacations overseas or something and see musicians live in concert.
Edits: 07/03/16Follow Ups:
TPA 3116 amp and which forum, if I may ask?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 07/04/16
Audio Karma - new gear.They're up to 256 pages of posts about it. Which is almost as bad as me with Audio Note. ;)
almost....
(he claims in various other posts that it has beaten his pricier 2a3 and other SET amps and his big Classe amps.)
Edits: 07/05/16 07/05/16
What individual in full control of his faculties would be asking 'Here' in an Open Mouth forum about which 6k$ amp to buy.
Edits: 07/04/16
What in the world are you talking about?
A. "Musical" and B. "Neutral"
The Audio Note Soro PP integrated or the P-2 PP power amp. (both class A PP) featuring the 6L6GC/5881 and their substitutes lie somewhat in between these two. It is detailed and fast; has good tight bass; while the mid-range is "pretty neutral" and the treble is, well, a bit bright (as is the case with most transistor amps). But it needs to be paired with somewhat easy-to-drive speakers, even if it puts out a "whopping" 20W. I actually prefer the sound of this amp to the 845 SET amps i have heard.
I find it's personality to be bi-polar (not to be confused with bi-polar transistors) in a good way.
Anyway, as an SET-lover, I would still recommend this amp as an interesting substitute to an SS amp.
Isn't that a tube amp? The original post is looking for SS.
Yes, I was following up on what RGA said, and even though it is a tube amp, it can be both musical (as in an Ayre SS amp) and neutral (as in a First Watt amp). Plus, it is a great value.
The negative - if it is one - is that it won't drive a multi-driver monster speaker.
I should look into those. I need a SS amp for the killer summer months here is Arizona. I love my tubes but I don't like getting dehydration listening to them.
thanks for the info
charles
However we have to see if the OP wants separates or a simple one piece integrated.You need a good power amp but it is essentially just a work horse type of component. Most of the magic comes in the source, preamp and speakers (in that order).
I also agree that just throwing money into a stereo becomes a waste after a certain $$ point. On this point I can't agree more!!!
OP could also look into some restored vintage gear. Ever listen to a Marantz 1060 integrated amp - now that's smooth! People in the music industry used to use them as office units.
addendum - it is correct you are not going to get tube sound from a SS amp. So your best bet for tube like sound IS vintage SS gear.
Edits: 07/04/16
I get integrateds but if you look at the physical size of the Bryston and if you put the MFA preamp on top of it - the actual dimensions of the two units may be significanly smaller than a number of integrated amps. And all you have to do is buy one additional cable.
I don't think vintage SS sounds like a SET amp though. The Stereotypical tube sound is the ST70 (IMO a dreadful sounding amplifier). Warm fuzzy bass and rolled off highs is the stereotypical tube amp. Modern tube and SET really don't sound like that most of the time anymore. I'm not necessarily against vintage but old SS is still SS and it wasn't better back then than it is today and you may end up pouring even more money into them when parts begin to fade. Caps don't last forever. Then again the 90s is vintage. In the 90s - 70s gear was called vintage so now in the 2010s the 90s has to be considered vintage. Bryston 2B is a vintage amp :) Time is going by too fast.
You got a good point there. SS is SS either it be new or old.HOWEVER~! the VTA ST-70 is clearly not the ST-70 you are thinking of. Two VERY different amps. I've had a number of the old 70's and this VTA sounds nothing like them. A real clean dynamic sound with absolutely no bass bloat. Actually it has a very strong clear clean bass.
Edits: 07/05/16
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