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In Reply to: RE: Is there any real benifit sonically between class A, AB etc... posted by morricab on June 28, 2016 at 14:38:20
`This was also tested by audio Journalist, Keith Howard, who actually added distortion digitally to a recording with a piece of software he wrote. He found that the unaltered file always sounded the best`
- Yes of course !
`but that the one with a monotonic even/odd pattern with exponential decay was the least offensive of the added distortions. An all odd pattern (the ideal for a push/pull amp) was the worst sounding. `
-Realizing this few simple facts many known and unknown amp designers was starts practicing the new type of modern art ,
`The Art of the Amplifier Voicing` :)
Regards !
__
"Art which does not have the appearance of art is true art."
- Old Roman saying -
Follow Ups:
My point here was mainly that those who claim SETs and other amps with a high 2nd order harmonic are "euphonic" are not correct in this claim.
SET's are different from all others, including other tooby's , there are many good SS amps that will match or better PP Toobs, nothing matches a good SET on the right speakers, well for acoustic instruments.If one does not listen to classical music and or acoustic instruments much, then there is no need to look at SET or PP Toobs in general...
Edits: 06/30/16
As long as you keep the amp in a comfortable operating range then the music can be as complex as you like and it doesn't get confused, compressed or glassy. This means you need a sensitive speaker and/or a small room.
If you go with lower sensitivity speakers, say 90db, then a 30 watt SET will work fine for complex music at moderate levels but not realistic concert levels.
I was able to get very good sound from a 30 watt SET on 84db electrostats because the drop to the listening position was only about 1db in my room. So to get in the mid 90s was possible without driving the amp to death, which was loud enough for me to easily enjoy classcial orchestra. Part of this was due to how well the system sounded with the SOFT parts of a symphony. I could set the lower end around 60db and then peaks to 95db were no problem. Most speakers just can't handle soft parts well until you boost them to where the peaks are now driving the amp to clipping. If the speaker can handle quiet passages without losing the sound quality (very few can do this even moderately well) then you don't have peaks of 105db at home, where most systems and rooms tend to be overloaded.
Was it the NAT or Lamm you prefered on Ribbons ...?
I have never heard NAT and LAMM on the exact same set of Apogees so it is not really possible to give a direct comparison.
KR Audio is far better on STudio Grands though than the Lamm M1.1. How an all Lamm would fare I can only guess...maybe the ML1.1 is really good on ribbons. My friend now has a Kronzilla SXi on his Studio Grands and a VA350 on his Acoustats (he liked my sound so much he basically copied the system).
The Lamms drove his Scintillas while he had them...it sounded not bad but not amazing either...Scintillas with a Sphinx Project 16 was significantly better sounding, IMO.
I never heard my NAT Symbiosis SE hybrid on an Apogee but I did try it on a pair of Relco Sinus One ribbon hybrids. That sounded REALLY good! I didn't buy the speakers only because they were too tall and wide and the WAF was maybe negative :). The ribbon was 1.7 meters long and was in a kind of assymmetric waveguide. The bass was on the bottom and integrated suprisingly well and went deep enough. This speaker was everybit as good as most of the Apogees I have heard and the NAT loved it.
I have heard NAT all tube amps on a pair of Apogee Grands. Really good sound overall.
Good one Banat ...:)@Morricab , you should try that Rotel , disbeliever sounds very Serious, i mean , really now everyone knows there's no way antique toobs can deliver ....
Edits: 06/29/16
What makes you think I haven't ;-)??
I have heard some Rotel gear in the past...can't remember what it sounded like...it was that (non) memorable.
Rotel gear sound pretty good for what it is.I'll keep my DIY SET 300b amps. No holds barred LCLC B+ supply for the finals with Electra Print partial silver single secondary OPTs, separate LCLC feeding a CCS into VR tube voltage regulated power supply for the driver tubes, driver tubes CCS plate loaded......line stage is a AVC, the DIY phono pre is no holds barred LCLC B+ feeding a CCS feeding VR tube voltage regulated and the 6sl7 and 5687 are CCS plate loaded, passive RIAA EQ.
The Rotels are OK but please........
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 06/30/16
No pic ..? Sounds like a beast , will it drive a 1.5 ohm load ...
Edits: 07/01/16
Here's a picture of one output stage. The other is below it. The driver chassis is there to the left. The power supply for the driver stage is not shown.
No, they won't drive a 1.5 ohm load but then again I don't have any 1.5 ohm loads.
They drive my midranges and tweeters in a biamped system using SS to drive the JBL 2231 woofers crossed at 200Hz.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Very nice.
I have a very interesting amplifier at home right now, the Aries Cerat Diana. It is a 110Kg monster that uses the 813 DHT pentode wired in triode. The driver and input tube are both 814 DHT pentods wired in triode. All are liked up through interstage transformers that are amorphous double C cores. No coupling caps. Sound is incredibly smooth and liquid but with stunning inner resolution and texture.
The power supply is using 3 of these 3kg super caps, SS rectification and I think 6 chokes for filtering.
That looks like a very serious amp.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
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