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Hello, I'm looking for some options to modify the volume controls on a AI M2D that I picked up not too long ago. I am enjoying the the preamp, but jut can't get used to the dual volume controls. I feel the need to get out my SPL meter and play pink noise to get the channels level matched before listening to music. There must be some other options such as installing a stepped attenuator for each channel or replacing with one stereo volume pot. I would love to have a remote control for volume, but I don't want to get too crazy, or ruin the sonics of this preamp by introducing noise with a motorized volume control.
Has anyone replaced the volume controls with a stepped attenuator or a single stereo pot? If so, what value did you use? Any other ideas?
Follow Ups:
Don't put the "stereo" pot in leave it as it was made. Music recorded and live is never the same, volume, dynamics. There is a person in Africa, no jokes, that put an "Alps" stereo pot in, he says he loves it but is selling it ?!? I'll buy it from you if you contact me before 10:00 hours today, Saturday, May 14. Regards
Nt
.
Motorized remote volume control.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I have all the parts and boards to to a conversion to a IR remote on the existing unit, using the existing VC. I just don't want to do it myself.
I was toying with the idea of upgrading to a ET3/ET3SE but I really do like this preamp. I'm really not in the upgradeitis frame of mind. Just wanting to make life easier.
I know in the end the answer is going to be a software solution to volume control of the digital device. However I'm also very happy with my Marantz NA7004. Hence, I think I'll wait for something worth while to buy at a future date.
because it would be more pleasing to the eye and thusly make you feel better about life in
general which would in turn put you in a better frame of mind and thusly improve your
overall listening experience.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
nt
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
which would need to be very expensive since there just doesn't seem to be much(if any) demand for them.
BUT, use nice, exotic imported rubber, a fancy casting system to imbed an elegant yet simple logo
into the band, box/display it nicely, overprice it...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
...but I suspect they'd all be black...
Dman
Analog Junkie
individual bands for different knobs...
Like those nice blue bands on broccoli, only better and WAY more expensive!
They'd work as micro vibration control as well.
ⒸKnobbands.
You read it here first!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I would say that separate volume controls for each channel on a consumer playback product is a bit geeky and unnecessarily cumbersome. (Now my phone's gonna ring. ;) )
Seriously, when recording, we NEED a level control for each input channel. But in a home playback system, it's over the top and annoying. It's akin to stepping through menus and choices on a car sound system or GPS - too much fiddling.
Some folks might be into it, though, to wit (from another poster):
"How you deal with this depends upon your technical abilities, but it is easy to calibrate your two volume controls so that the voltages match when in the same position. You have calibration lines surrounding the knob. In theory, if the two knobs are both pointing to the same point on the dial the output should be exactly the same. Unfortunately, this is not usually the case because the knob can be installed on the shaft slightly differently. I have separate volume controls for each channel and I always calibrate the knobs so that the preamp has identical AC voltages when the knobs are in the same position.
You need an AC volt meter and a signal generator. Set the signal generator for one volt AC sine wave (or whatever voltage is appropriate for your gear). Loosen one of the knob set screws and turn the other knob so that it is in the position you approximately use for listening; read the AC voltage on the output of this channel. Now turn the other shaft with the loose knob and match the AC voltage. Turn the loose knob until the position matches the other knob exactly and tighten the set screw. Now the output from both channels will match when the knobs are in the same position."
Seriously?! For a home stereo system?!
I "get it" if you've got a phono cart or other source which is out of balance. But that can be addressed by trim pots which you set ONCE. The occasional imbalance of a particular recording, or speaker placement, is why "balance" controls were invented.
:)
Geeky? Stunningly!
A decent sounding preamplifier with a nice phono section who's stock tubes had a long life span.
Everyone in my family hated the stepped dual volume attenuators on the 1995 later upgraded (over five months to complete) the 2000 version M3A. Regardless of DIP switch settings finding a comfortable listening level was usually impossible and having to double check the knob settings was a joke. The stepped attenuators were useless for balance control.
I can't imagine using traditional dual volume pots and feel for the original poster.
"Seriously?! For a home stereo system?!"
For MY home stereo: yes.
But you will not find separate L and R volume controls on any of my playback components.
It would totally suck to try to get both channels just right every time I put on another record.
:)
Use it between either a source and preamp or between preamp and amp.
?
My system has a volume control and a balance control. The balance control is dead center 99.97 percent of the time.
:)
for the original post
I could use a remote controlled volume control between the amp and preamp, but the Placette costs double what I paid for the AI. I think I'll continue to enjoy it for now as is. I'll just level match the volume control at a level that works for most recordings and sources and then pretend the preamp has no volume control at all. Set it and forget it. I have no interest in playing a mono voice recording every time I want to adjust the volume.
The rubber band around the volume controls is not a bad idea. What about attaching little gears from a bike cassette to the volume knobs and adding a chain. I think I've found the solution.
Thanks everyone.
How you deal with this depends upon your technical abilities, but it is easy to calibrate your two volume controls so that the voltages match when in the same position. You have calibration lines surrounding the knob. In theory, if the two knobs are both pointing to the same point on the dial the output should be exactly the same. Unfortunately, this is not usually the case because the knob can be installed on the shaft slightly differently. I have separate volume controls for each channel and I always calibrate the knobs so that the preamp has identical AC voltages when the knobs are in the same position.
You need an AC volt meter and a signal generator. Set the signal generator for one volt AC sine wave (or whatever voltage is appropriate for your gear). Loosen one of the knob set screws and turn the other knob so that it is in the position you approximately use for listening; read the AC voltage on the output of this channel. Now turn the other shaft with the loose knob and match the AC voltage. Turn the loose knob until the position matches the other knob exactly and tighten the set screw. Now the output from both channels will match when the knobs are in the same position.
I had a First Sound passive pre once with dual stepped volume controls.
Could never get the level just right there being not enough steps.
Drove me crazy to have to deal with two controls to adjust the volume.
Maybe, you can get little sticky dots and place at typical volume points.
I would never go back to that arrangement. I am not even a stickler with having a balance control for MAJORITY of listening, although I think that is a real drawback with many modern designs that leave out the balance control.
Take into consideration room imbalances if you were to move your system,or take into consideration that some CDs and LPs might be several DB down in one channel vs the other,or take into consideration that your amp or CD player,turntable,tuner,etc might have lost some output in one channel.Having separate volume pots allows you to compensate and equal things out but having a single volume pot takes away that advantage.You can buy better pots if you want but I would NOT use a single volume pot if I have a dual pot setup.
A friend you get for nothing,an enemy has to be bought
Edits: 04/21/16
Simple solution is to up-swappen for a 3-series Audible Illusions...them boys got two level controls and a main volume control. Best of both worlds, there.
only
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Post M-3 - like M-3a/b
Happy Listening
agreed
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
johsti-
If having dual pots is really a problem - change pre-amps-
Yes, you could get - say a Gold Point Stepped attenuator built to match the impedance of the pots in the 2D - you could even get a stereo stepped unit- But it probably won't fit in the chasis easily -
Or, as others have suggested - a passive unit on the tape outputs-
of a 'Pot-in-a-Box' between the 2D and your amp.
The dual pots is one of the strengths of the Modulus design - and has been used throughout its history - for better and worse...
I have a 3 - and built them for a while...
Happy Listening
Couldn't you just note the dB levels in relation to the marks on the faceplate for eachieving knob. If the marked locations are slightly different, then in reality this ends up giving you the most accurate levels. If you use stepped mono or locked all in one stereo pot, you won't have this luxury.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that replacing the original pots isn't going to guarantee linear balance. That's why many companies add a balance control.
The tubes also come into play for left to right balance. Do some measurements, then transpose the left right tubes. See if the marked levels change as well. If the do, you'll clearly see the need to have separate volume controls.
Hope all this makes sense?
Cheers!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
How much you wanna spend?I have a $1000 option
charles
Edits: 04/20/16
I know there use to be a number of options for remotely controlled, relay switching of stepped ladder type of volume/balance control (e.g., ones sold by Welbourne that could be built into existing units if space is available). I have one in one of my linestages.
There is a company that I think is still around that offers light-dependent resistor attenuation that is again relay switched by remote control. A friend of mine built a passive linestage around such module and it sounded very good and offered enough steps to allow for fine volume control.
There is a somewhat expensive, but very good sounding option out there from a company called My Emia. They offer an attenuator that uses an autoformer to provide attenuation (by converting current to voltage instead of using resistors to waste signal as heat). I believe that the designer, Dave Slagle, also offers this autoformer volume/balance control as a module that could be built into a linestage rather than being a separate unit. You probably can contact him at My Emia:
http://www.myemia.com/Prod.html
I love stereo too. However, over time, channels are not always "constant" in level, with regard to many factors. Consider different vintage discs, speakers moved a bit from perfect toe-in setup, tube aging, cartridge/stylus changed a bit from a thicker or thinner disc, phono cart going out of balance, resistors aging and changing value, amp bias needing adjustment, oh so many possibilities. For me, slightly adjusting two level controls is just as easy as "tweaking" the balance control every now and then.
Now, if your needs are special for you, certainly you can either add a "stereo" gain control within your vintage preamp; or externally. There are many remote equipped setups now available. If you preamp has a Tape Out, your options are even greater. There are autoformer level controls with remotes, transformer level controls with remotes and simple passive or active remote setups. Personally, I think your vintage tube preamp might need some capacitor upgrading if you feel your "usual" level settings are not usual anymore. Also, research the remote setups as many do not adjust each channel separately...
in the modern world, however, you can find dual mono performance in terms of separation with gain and balance controls.
I find that 110 db performance with my current preamp to offer a "surfeit of adequacy" as Rolls Royce would aver.
UNQUESTIONABLY BETTER!
A friend you get for nothing,an enemy has to be bought
For those of you that embrace dual volume controls, how do you make sure each channel is level matched? I can get OCD just trying to set up a cartridge, so I can't imagine how bad it would get trying to raise or lower the volume for different recordings.
I listen-try a mono recording with voice and see if it's tightly focused.
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