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In Reply to: RE: Question... posted by BigguyinATL on March 29, 2016 at 09:04:21
On the NAD was the soft clipping engaged in your comparison?
Always off with tone controls bypassed as well. I use my ears for that function. :)
Crown clipping circuit off as well although I rarely got the -10 db lights to blink.
Follow Ups:
You see I don't understand that... I would alway leave the clipping protection on!
-10dB indications mean perhaps you had peak levels at -8dB relative to 70Volts of so clipping point of the 300 Watt into 8 ohm XLS1500. 70 Volts - 8dB is about 28 Volts. The 50 Watt NAD clipping point is very near that.
Of course, there is a lot of uncertainty here with my napkin math. The two amps likely do not have calibrated indicators.
It's an easy test to confirm, either turn on the NAD soft clipping or turn down the volume a little (-5dB or so) and reconfirm your observations.
I'm not saying the XLS1500 is sonically better than the NAD - it is probably not. Its design purpose is not for discriminating audio. But you should give it a fair shake.
Note: When I read you review, and I see the adjectives "Transparency", "Air" and "Chimes and reedy things bathed in upper harmonics", I think that we might be concerned about a DC offset in your Advent's woofers, caused by the clipping NAD on asymmetrical (all music clipping is of this type of wave form (especially percussive sounds) causing an increase in distortion that (just like a "good" SET) has lots of "Air" and "Transparency".
I'm sure you have read the various Elliot Sound Labs articles on amplifier clipping.
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
You see I don't understand that... I would alway leave the clipping protection on!
I find no use for superfluous circuitry in the signal path. Perhaps it is a good idea in the pro world to protect gear from roadies and hard-of-hearing rockers at the gain controls.
The 50 Watt NAD clipping point is very near that.
I did a lot of listening to the Crown at much louder levels than I do with the NAD - because I could. Having said that, I can get pretty reasonable levels with 100 continuous watts and did the comparison within its range. The NAD design offers double that much IHF dynamic power.
Its design purpose is not for discriminating audio.
A good thing since that's essentially my conclusion given the extensive listening tests. I do acknowledge the value of low power consumption, compactness, ruggedness and watts-per-dollar in the pro world.
But you should give it a fair shake.
I listened to both with an open mind. It clearly has some strengths, but not those that are most important to me.
When I read you review, and I see the adjectives "Transparency", "Air" and "Chimes and reedy things bathed in upper harmonics", I think that we might be concerned...
Perhaps I'm not doing a great job verbalizing the live, unamplified experience or you might understand to what I refer. I struggled trying to describe the nature of the Crown's deficiency in getting the top right and sounding artificial. For me, it is not difficult to appreciate hearing an instrument with its harmonics in step and consistent with the fundamentals. Or a series of performers in the same space where you can perceive the acoustic and "air" of the room.
The Crown, however, is the proverbial "bull in a china shop" in terms of top end delicacy. It's like watching a defensive lineman attempting a plie . :)
I'm sure you have read the various Elliot Sound Labs articles on amplifier clipping.
No, but thank you for the link. I can certainly hear when the amplifier's character changes - which most often means the top end gets hard, screechy, closed in and loses sound quality - not *improve* it!
I think he makes a compelling case as to why you should never use soft clipping circuits. I didn't fully understand the depth to which detrimental effects occur:
"In general, for anything other than guitar amps, I would not recommend any form of soft clipping. The idea of hi-fi is to minimise distortion, and introducing non-linear elements into the circuit just increases the distortion at lower levels...
Unfortunately, at lower levels there will still be some distortion. For any circuit to clip 'softly', it must start to introduce distortion well below the clipping voltage (set by the power amp's supply rail voltage). As discussed in greater detail below, you will end up with 1-2% distortion at around half power (sometimes even less), with the distortion climbing rapidly as the amp delivers more power. This is not hi-fi!"
Amen!
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