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In Reply to: RE: Impressions of class D amps from Gilmore and Merrill... posted by mkuller on November 02, 2015 at 20:45:38
What you describe for the sound from the Gilmore Raptors is virtually identical to what I'm hearing from my brand new Crown XLS1500 through my Thiel CS3.7 speakers. The Crown is rated at 525-watts per channel into 4-ohms. The main difference is that the Crown XLS1500 cost only $199. You could have saved a lot of money for the same sound quality. ;-)
Follow Ups:
...sorry, that sound quality is not worth much long term ;-)
Have you tried tubes?
No, I haven't tried a tube power amplifier. My only tube component is a Yaqin MS22B phono stage, which actually sounds very good. I call it the best sounding $500 phono stage I've ever heard for $200.
Anyway, I am perfectly happy with my Parasound Halo A21 solid state amplifier. I just bought the Crown because it was on sale for $199 and I thought it might be good to have a spare amplifier. I'm going to play it for a while because it doesn't really sound that bad. Maybe it will improve with break-in. So far, I've had it in my system for less than one day. It was delivered by UPS yesterday evening.
Best regards,
John Elison
Why did you buy the Crown?
The price spec performance is certainly incredible, but you already have outstanding amplification.
> Why did you buy the Crown?
It was on sale at a 72% discount and I wanted to buy something. I had only one amp and I thought it might be a good idea to have a backup in case my Parasound develops problems.
I'm going to listen to the Crown for a while and see if it grows on me. Its sonic flavor seems to be weighted toward the bass end of the spectrum. Midrange sounds fine, but the highs sound a bit digital and splashy. It's not too bad, though. I'm actually enjoying the different sonic flavor of the Crown.
If I listen to the Crown for a couple of weeks and then go back to the Parasound, I think the difference will be heavily in favor of the Parasound. It will be interesting to find out, though.
Best regards,
John Elison
If you are listening through the RCA inputs that is the sound of the RCA-input connectors. I had a loaner XLS1500 here for a week or two, and found that the sound is much improved using the XLR inputs, also using the speakon connectors had a similar improvement over the banana connectors.
Actually, my system is fully balanced and the Crown XLS 1500 is sounding pretty good now. I leave it powered on continuously and the highs have improved. My speaker wires have Nakamichi banana plugs. Anyway, I kind of like the sound of the Crown. One of these days I'll go back to the Parasound Halo A21. I'm sure the Parasound is the better sounding amp, but there is something about the Crown that makes me want to keep listening for a while. ;-)
Thanks,
John Elison
Good to hear John, I remember being sucked into the micro-details the amp seemed to do well, I just thought the 'midrange and upper bass' was the weakest part of the amp...I experimented with a variety of footers and ended up with a combo of hard (BDR cones)at the rear and soft (dead balls)in front, coupled with a little weight on top(> 10lbs) The amp is so light it felt like a toy. lol
I found it to be a very colored amplifier in every way.......
Go Rossi ......
It was on sale at a 72% discount and I wanted to buy something.
LoL. I love it! Reminds me of me sometimes! ;-)
Sometimes you luck out and that huge discount pays off in great gear. And other times you toss it aside in a closet until you get around to selling it on Audiogon.
Sometimes you luck out and that huge discount pays off in great gear. And other times you toss it aside in a closet until you get around to selling it on Audiogon. - EstatEbay , Agon is bad news bear ...
Edits: 11/03/15
my short "relived" experience with Crown didn't require reselling - I got a full refund from the dealer.
Which is the only reason I ventured to listen to another Crown amp after owning one in 1974. :)
Hi Abe,
Yeah, I have some expensive stuff and some cheap stuff, and sometimes the cheap stuff is pretty darn good. My $200 Yaqin MS22B phono stage still sounds very good to me. I have no desire to try anything more expensive. It sounds as good as any $500 phono stage I've ever heard.
Anyway, the Crown XLS-1500 is not that bad. I've had it in my system for less than a day and it is kind of fun to have a different sonic flavor. Perhaps it will improve with break-in. It drives my 3-ohm Thiels as loud as I ever listen without even breaking a sweat. The fan hasn't turned on once and it doesn't even get warm. I've yet to see the -20-dB LED light up.
If you need a cheap power amp, they are only $199. ;-)
You can add my xls2000 and bi-amp, double your pleasure ..... :)
is a almost 40 year old Crown DC 300A - updated in 1990 by a colleague that worked there. I put it back in service recently. I have also started top use the digital EQ functions in Pure Music more. The Crown required a slight roll off at the high end compared to my Cary amp (also SS) in my system, but sounds pretty good. The use of digital EQ is changing some of my perceptions about system priorities.
High had the Gilmores on my Maggie 3.6's and they were great sounding top to bottom. Very transparent with great extended highs and very dynamic. My Berning amps are much better but also a lot more money. This may just be a mismatch of amp and speaker
Alan
...not a good match with my speakers.
As I said, they sounded good with the Maggies I heard them on.
Perhaps Class D is a good match mostly on Maggies. ;-)I heard a pair of Acoustic Imagery Atsah Class D monoblocks (NCore 1200 $9K/pr) at a friend's house driving a pair of Maggie 1.7s and then the 3.7s after he upgraded to the larger speakers. It was a wonderful sounding system.
I tried a pair of NCore 400 monos in my setup as well and a couple ICEpower based amps, and the Hypex UcD 'hybrid Class D' Medusa by Rogue. I ran them on my Thiel CS2.4 -as well as- my Tannoy Definition D500's. Very different speakers. I just couldn't enjoy the Class D amps for very long on either speaker.
Someone posted that tube guys are just expecting that 'bloom' or other 'coloration' and not used to the transparency and accuracy of Class D. That is not the case here. As much as I prefer tubes, I have also enjoyed good solid-state amplification long-term in my setup but I can't seem to warm up to Class D.
I'd rank these amps as significantly better than the Class D amps I have experienced in my system:
- Ayre AX-7e integrated
- Pass Labs 150.5
- Ampzilla 2000 2nd Edition
- Krell KSA-50S- Rogue Stereo 90 Super Magnum
- Rogue Cronus Magnum Integrated
- Manley Neo-Classic 250
- AES/Cary SixPac monosThese are the Class D amps I have had 'in my system':
- NCore 400 monos
- W4S SX-500 ICEpower monos
- Bel Canto M300 ICEpower monos
- PS Audio HCA-2
- Rogue Medusa 'hybrid Hypex UcD'and a few other Class D but those were not 'in my system at home'.
Edits: 11/03/15
from ARC.
Maggies and Ds450 .
Even ARC needs a low end product.
"SLEW RAT
5 volts/microsecond. (20% maximum duty cycle)"
Maybe that has something to do with it ;-)
and thanks
...I've been told class D amps work well with Maggies because their high damping factor stops the speakers from ringing.
The Pass X-350 was the best solid state amp I heard on the Thiels - no brightness but nice rich harmonic - until I began to notice upper mid grain I couldn't stand.
The reviews say the Pass .5 upgrade made a big positive change to the amp but I never had the opportunity to try it.
Class D sounds similar to other solid state amps, but they offer size and heat advantages - and they all sound different.
From listening to the Merrill and the Devialet reviews, I'd say class D is improving but at a huge price.
Maybe it will trickle down.
Yes, the .5 upgrades were noticeable improvements in the Pass line. I had the X150 and then the X150.5. The X150 started to sound a little harsh when loud. The X150.5 was much better. And both benefit greatly with a nice tube preamp driving them. This offered a good combination of dynamic 'slam' and authority with a more full-bodied robust tube sound. Of course I was using a rather 'tubey' sounding linestage at the time in the Cary SLP-05.
And now Pass is shipping the .8 models but I haven't heard any of them.
Thanks for the reviews. I'm still Class D curious but in the $2000 - $5000 range.
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