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In Reply to: RE: Objective vs Subjective... posted by mkuller on September 20, 2015 at 09:29:01
Objective is metrics- how does something measure. How something sounds "different", objectively, requires a physical measurement, rather than someone's opinion, which is simply subjective, regardless of who makes the observation. Why? Because measurements are not subject to bias, tastes, or other foibles of human perception. You can't argue with an oscilloscope. A SN ratio is a defined quantity. Your claim of what constitutes a "better" amp, without any defined physical metrics, is simply your subjective opinion. And we all have those...
Experts don't agree. That's the whole point. Human perceptions differ, tastes differ.
Some people like distortion, some don't. Some prefer signal fidelity, some want what they perceive to be a "live sound", which is simply their conception of a live sound, as there is no one "live sound".
Still want to compare specs?
try it! you know you want to!
Follow Ups:
...here is the part you are missing - for a measurement to be RELEVANT it has to be correlated to the goal and purpose of the product.
If the goal of an audio amplifier were to produce the lowest THD+N, you would be correct.
But it isn't.
The goal here is to reproduce music as realistically as possible through loudspeakers.
You cannot determine that with measurements unless they correlate to the result - and you cannot judge that without objective, observational listening.
Which is what JA attempts to do in Stereophile with his suite of measurements.
Otherwise the objective measurement "watts per pound" would be just as important.
Better go back and take a basic science class.
I would have thought you understood that I am referring to measurements related to the goal of an amp, which for most designers, is a wire with gain.Your goal is some nebulous, undefined, subjective "as realistically as possible", which means different things to different people and is completely and unarguably, without any definable metric, SUBJECTIVE. If you can't comprehend that basic concept, you are the one lacking in basic understanding.
There is no such thing as "objective, observational listening". What exactly is "observational listening"? LOL...Listening, by definition, is a subjective act as you will always find people who will differ on what was "heard", never mind the established fact that human senses are prone to bias and other error.
You arguments are flawed, as is your understanding of the topic. Enough, I am tired of you and your demonstrated inability to comprehend the difference between subjective and objective and the implications of each with regards to claims about amp performance.
try it! you know you want to!
Edits: 09/20/15
...since there IS NO SUCH THING as a straight wire with gain, how do you know how one amplifier's deviations from that goal affect the music as opposed to another amp's deviations?
Which reproduces music more "accurately"? One of the two must.
It is NOT POSSIBLE to find out JUST with measurements.
Observations of trained critical listeners are not "subjective" any more than is your ability to identify your wife's voice on the telephone.
And of course you are tired of my comments because you KNOW my logic and reasoning are correct.
Which makes you WRONG.
Music reproduction is the ultimate goal, not trading off one bench measurement for another, and you cannot determine the success or failure of a design WITHOUT LISTENING to the result.
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