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In Reply to: RE: "goals", preferences, the same thing...which is my point....clearly nt everyone agrees on what is best...nt posted by Garg0yle on September 19, 2015 at 08:27:07
When I first became interested in "hi-fi" back in the early '70s, people were interested in just that: high fidelity.
Today the goal of many is the euphonic, not the high-fidelity.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich
Follow Ups:
Euphonic:
adjective
denoting or relating to euphony; pleasing to the ear
God forbid - unless my music sounds UNPLEASING I'm not happy! Bleed eardrums, bleed!
----Feanor
why do audiophile are so depressing!
Why flog yourself? If it sounds good why does that mean "euphonic"? Do you want flat, grey and sterile to convince yourself it is "accurate"? Do you hear that when you go to a live unamplified concert (do you go?)
I went last Friday to hear Beethoven piano and organ concertos (number 1 and number 4) in a Church in Zurich. It was rich and full and dynamic sounding...you might say "Euphonic" (I know anyone with a Magico + Soulution system would think so if it was from a recording and not the real thing).
Do you really think all the recordings are so devoid of life?
... then that's the way it ought to be reproduced -- it's no the role of playback to "correct" the recording.
See my comments on "live sound" in my post below.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich
And no one (at least I am not) proposing to "correct" for anything.
There are far fewer really poor recordings (outside of pop/rock that is) than people realize.
Even though I do not agree with all that Audio Note, UK, has to say, their discussion that a system should give you maximum contrast from recording to recording is pretty informative. Recordings have a HUGE variety of different sounds and if your system in any way homogenizes them then it is somehow wrong. So, if you are finding a lot of recordings sound flat, grey and boring way...beware that something is likely wrong.
I have made quite a number live recordings, have you? I know live sound intimately from years of exposure and recording. The sound I got is never grey or flat or sterile...even when using DAT tape. I still use some as reference material.
I disagree, that is just another one of those old statements SS fans say to disparage SET fans. Ad nauseam
If anybody out there reading this is chasing "euphonic" effects, stand now and be counted.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
"If anybody out there reading this is chasing "euphonic" effects, stand now and be counted."That's the thing.
There are some who are chasing "euphonic" effects, know the difference and freely admit it.
I have no problem with that. Who the hell am I to dictate what someone else should want to listen to.
On the other hand there are those who think they are chasing the truth, but don't know what the truth is and in fact like "euphonic" effects (or the presents of high orders of HD causing what some think is "speed" etc..) but won't admit it (or I should say, can't admit it because they just don't know better).
This is why I have said that it is very important for everyone in this hobby to take the time to get intimately familiar with the sound of real acoustic instruments.
Otherwise we will never move the SOTA forward. We, instead, will just keep arguing about opinions.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 09/19/15
Heard some nice Beethoven piano and organ concerts last Friday in nice Church. I am sure many hear would call that sound "Euphonic" if they heard it coming out of their stereo systems :).
These guys must really think most recordings are crap to believe that the flat, grey and lifeless sound they hear is "accurate".
There are millions of live sounds; they depend on:
= The venue
= Your seat in the venue
= The musicians position in the venue
= The individual instruments used
= The playing style of the musicians
= The temperature and humidity
= ... a probably a few other factors.
Any "typical" live sound that an individual might imagine is highly subjective and affected by preference.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich
Let's clarify a bit, shall we?
I am referring to A) Live UNamplified music
B) Clearly the position you sit will affect the final outcome...but you still are unlikely to confuse the live sound (wherever you sit) with recorded and played back sound...you agree?
C) Again, individual instruments will for sure affect the original sound but if a violinist uses a Strad and then switches to a cheap modern students violin you aren't going to say suddenly "Geez now he sounds just like a recording!!" are you? It still sounds LIVE, regardless of the drop or gain in quality
D) Whether the musicians are great or they blow won't impact whether you think the performance is LIVE or not. Whether you like their performance or not is also irrelevant to the issue of "liveness".
Seriously, I don't think you completely don't understand the difference between the real thing and a recorded and played back event.
All the live examples above are still not likely to be mistaken for a recorded and played back version of that event. This is the main point that you miss.
You keep talking about different kinds of live as if they could be mistaken for a recording and that just won't be the case in nearly all circumstances.
I hear people talk all the time that it is like wine tasting...except that they are simply wrong and it is not at all like wine tasting. Wine tasting is the direct "live" event, just like going to hear real musicians play. The character, flavor etc. is different from wine to wine just as from performance to performance. Recording and playback is now a step removed from the real thing and the goal is get as much of that real thing captured for all time. There is NO analog for wine tasting (you can't smell or taste a picture of a glass of wine, for example) or food tasting for that matter. There are visual analogs but no one is saying that a flat TV picture would fool someone into beliving its real. Maybe if they perfect hologram TV they can open this discussion...
No dispute.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich
Literally speaking you are correct...however, that was not really the point...
Every recording should sound different , because they are , its the one thing really common with class-D amps , they do not deliver this varying contrast with recordings as well as Class A or AB amplifiers , Well , at least the ones i have heard so far .
They do capture live thou ....
Also, no amp is perfect, they all have strengths and weaknesses. That's a fact. Choosing an amp involves subjectively ranking which strengths are more important to you, which weaknesses least important. Add to this the fact that all amps are part of a system, and not all amps have the same strengths and weaknesses in all systems, and the whole hypothesis crumbles.
And we don't even need to address the faulty hypothesis that all live unamped music sounds the same to all people.
try it! you know you want to!
"They do capture live thou .... "
Live...but the same!! Things that make you go hmmm....
the make of the instruments used, and the season when the performance takes place...
Ever see the movie Rashomon? I think that explains the subjective nature of human perception quite elegantly.
try it! you know you want to!
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