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In Reply to: RE: At what level are these sidebands inaudible? posted by Garg0yle on September 19, 2015 at 08:30:52
Yes, the human ear is "very sensitive", but I expected something based on "physics" from you as surely you are aware that the human ear is not infinitely "sensitive".
Sure, physics is needed to make an amp. It has nothing to do with subjective judgments, which are what you are making.
try it! you know you want to!
Follow Ups:
You are confusing distortion percentage with a volume level, a low percentage does not render it inaudible, it will affect the subtle textures that makes things sound real.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
OK smart ass, 0.000% sidebands is inaudible and will not alter the magnitude of frequencies in the source material.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
So much for physics and rational discussion....
try it! you know you want to!
How so?
Please explain how you arrived at this conclusion?
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
there is no level at which sidebands are inaudible. That means the ear has infinite sensitivity. LOL...
try it! you know you want to!
... It's a few percentage of 2nd order.One thing discovered by Pythagoras 2500 years ago was that high-order harmonics sounded bad -- harsh, discordant. Nobody is really arguing with Morricab and his ilk that high-order sounds good , only that there is some level where it's inaudible.
But other thing that Pythagoras discovered way back then was that 2nd and even 3rd order made the sound mellower and richer. The fact that Morri et al. refuse to admit is that the style of amp they prefer sounds "good" because it has 2nd order, not because it doesn't have immeasurable amounts of high-order.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich
Edits: 09/20/15
If you look at the measurements of many good SETs you will see that the THD is usually well below 1% at 1 watt and continues to decrease logarithmically as you drop down lower in power and increase logarithmically as you go up in power (looks like a straight line on the usual Log/log plots presented in Stereophile and Soundstage).
What this means is this, not only is the content predominantly low order harmonics at low power even that is very small and completely inaudible. Plus there are no nasty harmonics to interfere.
If you use reasonably sensitive speakers then you will never be in a region where you are at 2 or 3% distortion except on music peaks where the loudness of the music works against the audibility of the distortion anyway.
Note that a lot of amps actually have higher relative distortion at low power than at higher power...this is probably because of residual crossover distortion or some other level independent type distortion.
If the amps in question made 3% 2nd order at 1 watt then you would have a good point...as such they usually are more like 0.5% at this power, which is completely inaudible.
One thing my "ilk" can do that seems to be lacking by many on this forum is the ability to read and interpret the data that is available and put it in context of what various authors are saying about distortion and audibility.
All distortion at some level does damage to the signal...2nd and 3rd order are no different...just more consonant with music than the higher orders. Also, it is clear that IMD is not so consonant with music (even 2nd and 3rd order) and it is what Nelson Pass calls in his paper on distortion "The elephant in the room".
Again, Keith Howard demonstrated that no added distortion sounded better than any pattern he tried BUT the montonic pattern was the least objectionable.
So an SET's is a perfect 1watt amp at 8 ohm only ... :)
I had asked before but will do so again , is there any SS class-A biased amps with high distortion at 1 watt...?
Better than imperfect at any power and any load I would say...not that they are as limited as you imply.
As to your query, go look and let me know. Howver, I thought it was rather clear that absoute amount of distortion, particularly at 1 watt is not really what we are talking about here, are we??
Just to quickly jump in here...
Morricab cited references that ALL types of distortion are detrimental.
In order to have virtually no offensive higher order harmonics, one has to accept a little bit of second.
Which again, when weighted is not really discernible because it blends so well with the intended source material, it becomes for all intents and purposes inaudible if kept reasonably low.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
that have harmonic distortion of all harmonics, not just the 2nd, below audibility....
try it! you know you want to!
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