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In Reply to: RE: I wonder why there are so many "conceptually wrong" amps? posted by Garg0yle on September 18, 2015 at 15:58:40
Some class d amps are cheap and some are expensive. Just like some ss and tube amps. But when a class d amp costs $10K, people whine and complain about how class d is suppose to be cheap and it must be a ripoff, never mind the performance. It's apparently ok though for a tube or ss amp to cost $100,000 and perform no better than the $10K class d.....
Class d is hardly "new". It has been around for at least 30-40 years. It has only been recently though that it has matured to the point were it can compete on an even basis with ss or tubes.
And while you haven't noticed that many were impressed by them, the growing list of manufacturers "switching" to class d products is quite substantial.
try it! you know you want to!
Follow Ups:
"Some class d amps are cheap and some are expensive. Just like some ss and tube amps. But when a class d amp costs $10K, people whine and complain about how class d is suppose to be cheap and it must be a ripoff, never mind the performance. It's apparently ok though for a tube or ss amp to cost $100,000 and perform no better than the $10K class d....."
-For the record, I start to whine when any audio device starts to grossly exceeds the sum of the parts.
A good 2 channel amp shouldn't cost more then $4000-$5000 tops if one chooses to have premium parts.
I suppose people whine about expensive class D amps because at the core, they are using the same OEM chips as the cheaper ones. All that is left is a few incidental parts and a stout power supply which really isn't all that expensive.
There isn't any antique chips or chips hand made my an old Japanese guy to justify those kind of premiums.
"Class d is hardly "new". It has been around for at least 30-40 years. It has only been recently though that it has matured to the point were it can compete on an even basis with ss or tubes."
-Yes, that is why I put it into quotes, sorry for the confusion.
I suppose it has matured as much as standards have dropped. Also a potential market has been opened up in recent years.
Time will tell whether we actually need Class D for some devices, as battery technologies have pretty much offset the need for it.
"And while you haven't noticed that many were impressed by them, the growing list of manufacturers "switching" to class d products is quite substantial."
-Well sure, can't blame them for trying to make more money. Granted a lot are the same companies that have pushed everything else solid state over the past decades so it is not much of a leap.
Other companies are so obscure it is totally irrelevant to HiFi what they do.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
I suppose it has matured as much as standards have dropped. Also a potential market has been opened up in recent years.
Good one!! Next we'll hear " It sure does make my low bit rate MP3 sound great"
All equipment today with high-end aspirations sells at high mark-up. It is a marketing strategy that allows short-run manufacturing.
It short-run, high mark-up products ensures that virtually all high-end equipment retails for several times the cost of its raw components.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich
More to costs than the parts....Research and development costs need to be added in as well.
Class d audio amps are said to be much more difficult to get right and take a different skill set than those needed for ss and tubes. Few people have those skills, thus why most buy modules.
Some of the module users use cnc cases and other jewelry which adds $$$.
The ncore1200 module from Hypex used by several in their high end amps are said to be sold by Hypex with a minimum price requirement so the reseller's hands are to some extent, tied, in that case.
try it! you know you want to!
"More to costs than the parts....Research and development costs need to be added in as well."
-Sure, but that could be said about other technologies also.
From some aspects, it is easier with class D as it is basically a chip amp, the bulk of engineering and manufacturing is already done.
"Class d audio amps are said to be much more difficult to get right and take a different skill set than those needed for ss and tubes. Few people have those skills, thus why most buy modules."
-Doesn't that set off bells that tell you it is severely compromised design from the start?
If somebody had the skills to make it "right", one wonders why they haven't been implemented by the chip manufacturers by now.
"Some of the module users use cnc cases and other jewelry which adds $$$."
-Form should follow function. If it doesn't sound good in a cake pan...
"The ncore1200 module from Hypex used by several in their high end amps are said to be sold by Hypex with a minimum price requirement so the reseller's hands are to some extent, tied, in that case."
-Even still, I doubt they are paying more then 2 figures per chip.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
I don't follow you....There is more to most class d audio amps than a chip....Look at the Hypex ncore. It's not a chip...And they cost quite a bit more than 2 figures...
try it! you know you want to!
Isn't that the n400 in your signature?
You are right, the correct term would be "module" I suppose.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
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