|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
75.100.188.177
In Reply to: RE: The perfect amp does not exist posted by Ric Schultz on August 09, 2015 at 11:14:23
It wasn't a statement of fact. Perhaps if you took the time to read both links you would have understood that.Sure, everything changes the sound. What you have yet to prove is first, that all changes are audible, and secondly, that they are improvements, not simply changes in flavor. But you make a living selling people modifications so it doesn't serve your business model to actually acknowledge the simple fact that there are indeed limits to human hearing and thus not all mods are audible.
Further, while some of your modifications may produce a different sound that some, including yourself, may prefer to the stock sound, you have yet to present any measurements that prove an actual objective improvement in the performance of the equipment modified. In other words, different doesn't mean "better". If people like the change, great. But don't try to peddle your sound effects as real performance improvements because you have provided nothing to substantiate such claims.
I have read about your ncore mods and claimed "improvements". While they may alter the sound in a way some like, it boggles the mind to think that you, without a single class d amp design to your name, have somehow improved the performance of an amp designed by one of, if not the, leading designers of high performance class d amps. But stranger things have happened so please, post some measured improvements in the performance of the ncore and I will be the first to congratulate you.
Personally, I prefer the wire with gain approach. Others like to add some seasoning to their sound. Whatever works for you is just fine by me, but let's be honest about what is actually taking place.
try it! you know you want to!
Edits: 08/09/15 08/09/15Follow Ups:
The problem is you do not listen.....so you have no idea of what you are talking about. You are all about theories. Have you listened to the modded caps? No. You don't listen to anything. No one has to post measurements that prove resistors or whatever sound different......they DO NOT MEASURE DIFFERENT.....this is what you do not get. Measurements are great for computers....but in audio it is way more subtle. All amplifiers, etc. sound different....you could know this by listening. All wires, caps, resistors, brands of solder, etc. etc. etc. all sound different.....they do! And some sound way better than others...and you will know which ones are best when you listen. But you will never know....you are too busy being righteous about your measurement Gods. You are a bible thumping measurement person who has no direct experience of anything in audio that matters......and what matters in audio is the SOUND......
Open you mind....start listening....you will change your tune once you actually experience (real knowledge) something. No doubt you will just "fight" what I just said......However, there is no peace, no love, no bliss, no satisfaction, no nothing in being right. It is empty. Really great sound makes you move, jump, cry and thank the God above for such a glorious feeling. Listen, feel, Love....yourself and others....forget about being right. End of sermon....pass the plate.....he he.
I never said some mods do not change the sound or that certain components don't sound different. I have simply questioned claims that these mods objectively improve performance. Since not all people perceive sound the same way, there is no basis for claiming your changes are "universal" never mind "improvements". They are only seasoning. Some might like the new flavors, some may not. But flavors is all they are unless you can prove otherwise. Different, sure. Better? Prove it.
Likewise, your theory, which is all it is, that all mods affect sound in some meaningful way, is patently false. Human hearing, like all human senses, has it's practical limits.
Yes, it is about the sound. But you have no monopoly on what "good sound" is...Good for you, that's all.
You wave your hands and castigate science but in the end you have your own set of theories and dogma, no different.
try it! you know you want to!
"Likewise, your theory, which is all it is, that all mods affect sound in some meaningful way, is patently false. Human hearing, like all human senses, has it's practical limits."How do you know it is false when you don't listen?......again, you have no idea of what you are talking. You cannot measure most things that change the sound....it is that simple. You cannot measure them.....how many times do I have to say it. Forever, I guess, because you won't listen and find out for yourself directly.
If you came over to my house I could blow your mind in five minutes.
I had an employee who had never listened to a high end stereo sit in front of my modded Quads years ago. I had her just listen to the cymbals only. Then I went into the bedroom and did something and played the cut again. I asked here if it sounded different this time. She said it sounded smoother and cleaner but did not have any of the audiophile jargon like "less grainy", etc.....so that is all she could say. Then she asked me what I had done and I told her that I had unplugged the digital clock from the wall next to my bed (the whole apartment was on the same power). She could hear this without any prior listening experience.....a total virgin. This game is really subtle....everything makes a difference.As to what is better sound.....well that is all in the ears of the hearers.....simple as that. But everything you do makes the sound different.....so how can you say you like the straight wire approach when every piece of wire sounds different. If he thought the stock NC700 was perfect then why did Bruno put a newer input stage and better output filter caps on the Mola Mola? Does it measure better because he did this.....you know it does not......the game is never ending. Perfection is light years away. The Mola Mola amp is not a straight wire with gain device......try the amp bypass test and then you will know. Nothing passes the straight wire test....not even wire.
I do read what you say......but all your posts are the same......a veiled subtle way of saying that Ncore and measurements are God......it is really too bad you don't get out more....your life would be more fulfilling.
Edits: 08/09/15
You are as close minded as those you chastise.
There have been loads and loads of tests and research that refute your claims that any and all changes are audible. I am not saying two pieces of wire can not sound differently, only that human hearing has it's limits. Perhaps there is much below our level of auditory perception. You offer nothing but hand waving and a "please believe me"...I have tried lots of tweaks, cables, etc. over the years. Some things are audible, some aren't, and some perceived differences were probably based on biases, not actual differences.
And you completely misunderstand my comments about ncore and measurements. I have only mentioned measurements when someone tries to pull the "mine is better than yours" BS. The only way to judge qualitative differences is through measurable performance. So if you want to talk objective performance, then you have only specs. If you want to claim your amp sounds better than my amp, you are talking subjective performance and there is no way to prove this. This is the reason for all the debate here: some have tried to "prove" their subjective preferences are superior to others by citing pseudo-science based on objective performance measurements.
Again, enjoy your tweaks. Just don't tell me they are anything more than seasonings....
try it! you know you want to!
That explains everthing. :)
The only way to judge quantitative differences is through measured performance".....
The point being, there is no way to measure subjective performance and thus no metric to prove claims of "superior" or "better sound". There is no proving one's tastes are superior to another's. That's been the whole point.
If you make claims about the superiority of one topology or amp over another, the only claims that can be verified are those made about the quantitative, or measurable performance. If you want to argue specs, fine. Ncore can stand against the best.
The "live music" argument is a failure. We all have our own perceptions of what live music sounds like. Just like we all have our own preferences when it comes to which amp sounds best. It's subjective.
try it! you know you want to!
And what are yours?
nt
try it! you know you want to!
nt
try it! you know you want to!
It is through listening to familiar recordings.
But don't tell me your amp is "better" than mine. Or try to tell me my amp is inferior based on objective criteria unless you have the specs to back that up.
try it! you know you want to!
your metric charts give you the greatest listening pleasure.
Others recall musical performances. I get a regular dose with wifey playing her baby grand. :)
nt
try it! you know you want to!
Funny story about recording a baby grand in a friends house some 20 yrs ago , a real eye opener for sure ...
Finally to the meat of the argument. The old objectivist vs. subjectivist diatribe. I don't know about you though, my oscilloscope has never told me whether or not a particular input sounded good...yet.
I dont believe that Cab, your scope has never told you what sounds bad , how is that possible..
umm, you aren't making much sense...did you drink a bit today?
We are drinking the same my friend , cheers.... :)
Too much i guess ..
Edits: 08/09/15
Yeah, I got a few of those...but no longer have a deck to play them on. I sold it when I moved to London for a year. Wasn't getting much use at the time though. I was making recordings of small classical ensembles (up to quartet size) of my ex (a very talented violinist).
I don't know about you though, my oscilloscope has never told me whether or not a particular input sounded good..
It is evident that his exposure to the sound of live, unamplified music is limited.
All I can say is that for me the measurements should be viewed more as a quality control tool for the accurate replication of more audio devices. It allows the designer to see if something went wrong somewhere; either in the design or in a part gone bad.
It CAN be used for design optimization if used in conjunction with psychoacoustics, both models and listening tests. Supposedly Mr. Lamm developed a hearing model in his past and tunes his amps to match what his theory says should be the best for most humans. Seems to have worked pretty well overall I would say...so there are guys out there that know.
So she went in a virgin and left not ..? im sure thats not a unique situation ...
Lol
Edits: 08/09/15
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: