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In Reply to: RE: Leben posted by mbnx01 on July 24, 2015 at 13:52:48
Without them there would be no Leben amps. They choose to limit their service to original purchases, that's just their prerogative. And somehow people keep buying them.
In this game it's best to research these issues before buying. Because you're not just buying an amp, you're buying the company that made it and that you may need to turn to for service.
fight the good fight
Follow Ups:
Totally puzzles me why a company would want to do that. Isn't that even illegal?
I can understand offering a non-transferrable warranty (uncool by hey) but refuse service and parts to anyone not the original owner?????
Edits: 07/26/15
This way people will buy new and keep the company in business, gaining the comfort of knowing they have a warranty.
Plus its hard to find a Leben on the used market anyway.....which should tell people something about the product. On the other hand the used market is FULL of Audio Research...which seems to always break down.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
It is, you are correct. One that may not work in the long-run. You mentioned that they have been in business 23 years. Japan maybe, but certainly not in the USA that long. The USA is a different market.
You also mention Audio Research and the fact that their products are always available on the secondary market. Not due to breakdown as you assert, but due to the fact that the company has been in business for 45 years, nearly twice as long as Leben and all of it in the USA market. Their products are available on the secondary market because you can get them repaired if necessary. Buyers can move into expensive equipment by buying it on the secondary market and then move up the line, or buy more products, if they like the product line.
It doesn't appear that Leben has this opportunity for potential buyers with their "business plan".
For some reason I don't think Leben depends on the American market to stay afloat.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
"For some reason I don't think Leben depends on the American market to stay afloat."
I'm sure you are correct in that statement. But they did expand to the USA market and I'm fairly certain they did it for potential growth. However, after this thread, I'm now also fairly certain that it is perceived as a luxury brand with customer-desired retro styling and in a different market than most high-end audio equipment. They sell to a buy once and keep it forever customer.
That works until potential customers start asking "what if I don't like it?". Then you get into the long-run scenario I described previously.
There's nothing wrong with a business plan such as theirs. It simply puts a major constriction on the number of potential customers. The luxury market is different from audiophile-land so it may not matter.
In business its all about Economies of Scale.
If its just you and two to three people you might want your product sales to be at a moderate level as to keep the flow of parts at a minimum and investments in stock and other over head at a reasonable number. For example, loosening up restrictions or using other measures to increase sales = increasing stock, labor, etc and slowing production or hiring more people and increasing space.
A prudent business person forgoes greed and settles on a sustainable business plan which can be maintained for the long run without massive debt, inventory, employees etc.
I suspect Leben, like STAX and many other Japanese companies are comfortable with their business plan as is, and not in a rush to become the next LG.
Just my .02
:-)
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
With a small operation you may be compromising quality if you try to stretch your production. And they may be at a spot they like. As others mentioned, you don't see a lot of used leben on the market. I know spectral can be a bit finicky, but I believe part of it is their desire to limit production volumes to maintain quality. It pays off.
fight the good fight
Yes it does pay off.
Plus the last thing a company would want is someone trying to buy up old/damaged gear then ordering parts, fixing them and flooding the market with refurbished gear at a discounted price.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
We're in total agreement (as long as the company wants to remain very small).
Agreed
:-)
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
They clearly haven't done any product scenario analysis which would likely show that their policy looks good in the short-run but is very bad in the long-run.
Why? The secondary market will eventually disappear as potential buyers learn that they can't obtain authorized service or actual parts for service through an independent shop. They may be content to have different internal parts that could change the sound of the product, but they would likely be disturbed to learn that if a knob or the faceplate is scratched or worn they are SOL because it cannot be repaired. As potential buyers realize this the secondary market is destroyed due to prices coming down due to lack of buyers.
Maybe the dealer will take trade-ins if an original purchaser wants to move up the manufacturer's line. Due to the declining secondary market, and the fact that the dealer must tell a potential buyer of the used product that he (the buyer) will not be able to get service or parts for it, the dealer could offer a very low trade-in value for the unit. And the dealer may not even take trade-ins since he really needs to be honest and tell potential buyers of a used unit that they won't be able to get authorized service or parts for it. Again, an absolute disaster for cosmetic issues, which would be a dis-incentive for even non-audiophiles.
Again, with policy like this, it could be beneficial for the manufacturer in the short-run as buyers would want to go to authorized dealers for new units.
But once you buy it, you're stuck with it for life. Maybe they have a unique market. This may not be an issue for their market. Only time will tell.
Did you hear the new policy from Honda? They will not provide parts or service to anyone but the original owner of any Honda vehicle.
They're afraid people are buying grey market Honda's and they think this will stop that and have no other impact on their business.
"A lie is half-way around the world before the truth can get its boots on."
-Mark Twain
I've been to Japan many times. Love the place, but I can tell you that snobbery is a big part of the culture..got a lot of if from the french who they worship.
Leben, like the other boutique has the typical mystique of being hard to find.
Personally, I have little patience for importers who don't list prices or dealers.
For importers who won't talk to you on the phone and are really slow at replying to emails.
"A lie is half-way around the world before the truth can get its boots on."
-Mark Twain
Inevitable really, as fear of buying an item not supported by the manufacturer 'trickles up' to damage primary sales. Why? No point spending big bucks on a Leben amp unless you are going to keep it forever, because chances are, no one else will buy it from you if its unsupported.
As Terry indicates below, this is hardly a market-building strategy.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
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