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I have been auditioning speakers for the last couple of weeks and finally have settled on the Sonus Faber Olympica 2s. The entire Olympica series absolutely blew me away vs. even far more expensive speakers.
Two very respected audiophile friends have recommended pairing these with Ayre AX-7 plus a good DAC (e.g. Ayre QB-9). I have been feeling reasonably set on this and am auditioning the entire setup in the coming days. Total price about $16,000. Then came this issue:
Someone I know bought Olympica 3s with Ayre AX-520 and has decided to part with them. The Olympica 3s seem like a reasonable upgrade - they list at about 30% more so maybe I could get them for the same price as Olympica 2s. But I am curious as to whether it is worth upgrading so much on the Ayre product - it's almost $9K more new. The entire system has very little use, so I'm not sure what kind of discount I might demand...it seems like I'll be into it for even more money, which I'm reluctant to part with unless I get a ton of value for it (seeing as how I lose the connection with the store).
I'm just not even sure how to make a decision like this. Obviously when I audition the setup in two different places it will be pretty hard to compare perfectly. Any thoughts or advice appreciated.
Follow Ups:
I've been a happy Ayre user for about 8 years or so. All my electronics are Ayre....never did I have any problem, although I've been in touch with their wonderful service department for a couple of upgrades. Great company...fabulous equipment.
Assuming the prices are somewhat in the same ball park, the newer model SFs with the AX-5 Twenty should clearly have higher SQ than the older SFs paired an AX-7e (altho' the latter probably sounds danged good). You were already budgeting $16K? New, I think the AX-7e is $3.5 while the AX-5 Twenty is $13K. I would consider up to $20K for the used system. I just checked the Ayre website - it does appear that the Ayre warranty is not transferable unless resold by an authorized dealer, so that's a consideration. I have no idea how often AX-5s need warranty service but can tell you that my 12 year old AX-7 has only been sent to Ayre for the "e" upgrade.
I think that without question, moving up from the Olimpica II to the III is a move you will never regret. As I have written a jillion times in Stereophile magazine, simple reliance on a comparison of statistics such as driver size or frequency extension is usually misleading. Going 6 Hz lower makes a big difference.
You didn't post what you have now, but you do claim to be a "value-based buyer." So here is my radical advice.
Grab the Olimpica IIIs.
Then, from an etailer such as BH Photo, buy a Grace design m920 DAC and a Lindell AMPX; both will come with money-back guarantees. You will also need adapter jumper cables perhaps 6 or 9 inches long temporarily to go from the Grace m920's closely-spaced 1/4" phono/TRS balanced outputs to KLR Male connectors. Markertek can do that for not much money.
I do not believe you can use adapter plugs, because there is not enough room on the back panel of the m920. When you decide to keep the m920 you can special order TRS to XLR balanced cables in the length needed.
You NEED TO feed the Lindell a balanced signal, otherwise you cut its output by 6dB.
Yes, of course, a Bricasti DAC and mono amps will drive the Olimpica IIIs all the way to Heaven, at a US MSRP of $39,000. My Grace/Lindell recommendation is LESS THAN ONE-TENTH THAT!!!!!
Once you are satisfied with the essential sound, you can then do things like cost-optimal power conditioning and cords (Shunyata Venom is nice), vibration control (I love Symposium Rollderblocks) and room acoustics.
But if you are sitting on a mountain of cash, by all means get the Bricasti and $10,000 of Cardas Clear while you are at it.
Best of luck,
jm
I own both the m920 and the Xindak PA-M, which is the OEM version of the Lindell AMPX (and Audreal PA-20).
I also own the Odyssey Audio Khartago stereo amp and find it much superior - more transparent, nuanced, lively and realistic - compared to the Xindak (note, my Khartago has most of the factory 'Extreme' options).
The good news is the Khartago is sold factory direct and available for US$995 in stock form - and even with the 'Extreme' updates it would cost much less than the Lindell amp....at least for buyers in the US. BTW, other than being a satisfied customer, I have no affiliation with Odyssey.
I'm constantly amazed how great the m920/Khartago sounds in combo with my Harbeth M30.1 monitors.
System Details
JM,
I love the creative recommendation. I am super worried that I would screw up some portion of the implementation, though.
Still scratching my head. I've listened to the seller's Olympica 3s paired with the Five twenties, and wow....wow....wow
I am getting such helpful feedback, thank you. I've listened to the 3s vs. the 2s. My room is about 12x16 (lengthwise for listening direction), I wonder whether the 3s are overkill? At least one person has told me I won't notice much of a difference with that extra speaker.
I am buying a QB9 DAC from Ayre, and deciding between an AX-7e and AX-520 amp.
This is my mid life crisis purchase.
I helped set up a pair of Sonus Faber Amati Futuras on the long wall of a room (NOT the room in the picture) about that size (but with an open archway to one side) and the Amati Futuras were not overkill.
The person who offered his at best amateur opinion was not doing you any favors.
To quote Fleetwood Mac, sure, you can go your own way. But having heard both, I think that you would be, um, erm, well, foolish not to try the Grace m920. Especially as it comes with an MBG.
If you say that this is whatever kind of purchase you say it is, then: It is. However, does that necessarily mean that the process has to be impulsive and the result less than optimal?
Were someone without any preconceived notions to ask me about amplification for good Sonus Faber speakers, I'd say, "The best Audio Research you can afford is the logical starting place."
JM
PS: Here's a photo that includes me, in a room where the speakers were not overkill either.
I see Peter McGarth , the other chaps ...? Actually the Wilsons sound better in a "smaller" than a "big" room ...
Edits: 05/22/15
Peter McGrath, Wilson Audio.
Tam Carlson, the University of the South, Sewanee, TN.
Chris Huston (wiki him!)
John Marks.
# # #
Audition in your own space for openers.
I haven't heard the AX-5 Twenty, but I can tell you that the original AX-5 is a nice step up from the AX-7e, particularly in the bass but also resolution, speed, and overall transparency. If you haven't seen it, there is a thread comparing the two just down the page, started by Abe Collins.
I haven't seen an AX-5 Twenty on the used market yet, but an ad for an AX-5 just expired on Agon. Assuming it hasn't sold, it will probably be back up again soon. Asking price was around $5500 if I remember right. Previous AX-5s have been selling in the same ballpark so I think it's a fair price. I would think an AX-5 Twenty would fetch more like $7500.
Top 3 amps that I've heard: Ayre MX-R, ARC Ref 150, and Ayre AX-5. I haven't heard the Twenty version but I have no doubt that it is a worthwhile upgrade. There have been several rave reviews of the KX-R Twenty compared to the original KX-R (which was getting plenty of raves in its own right). I have yet to hear an Ayre upgrade that was short of "must-have".
I don't know when/if I'll ever have the coin but the AX-5 Twenty is very much on my radar (Aadar?)
I fell for the AX-5 about 10 minutes into my first listen with my current speakers. Nothing else I had auditioned with these speakers came close. I was a little nervous about spending $10k but after an hour or so of listening it seemed worth it. And then my dealer offered to sell me their demo unit. There was a small nick in the faceplate and they seemed very motivated to move it, so I got a good price without any haggling. It ended up being a no-brainer purchase.
I have no problem with spending another $3k for the upgrade, especially considering how much they change. However, I am also thinking about the possibility of the selling the AX-5 and buying a VX-5 Twenty. My source has a hybrid volume control which sounds pretty transparent when switched in, so I can't help wondering whether using it to drive the VX-5 would be an improvement due to the simpler signal path. Then again, I don't know how much the pre-amp section contributes to the AX-5's magic.
I should think you want to audition the VX-5 first before pulling the trigger. The KX-R Twenty is, by accounts I've read, an absolute top-shelf pre-amp (I also had a chance to hear one and the system it was in was easily in the top two I've ever heard). I think the main differences between the KX-R and the AX-5 or KX-5 are: 1) more steps in the volume control - which is said to be stupid expensive to build; 2) faster circuit board material in the KX-R; and 3) the fancy chassis for the KX-R. IOW, the pre-amp section of the AX-5 Twenty is very nearly as good as anything money can buy.
Just wanted to bring you up to date on my system changes since we have the same system setup.
I contacted Pierre at Mapleshade Music and explained my desire to upgrade while keeping costs down (As an ex-dealer I am not buying into the marketing insanity so prevalent in our hobby.)
Very Skeptical as I was I took Pierre's advice and bought 2 4'' maple platforms for each Vandersteen IICE, as well as for my Ayre AX-7 Amp, and QB-9 DAC / Mac Mini.
I also took a chance with Mapleshade Golden Helix Speaker Cable and Jumpers.
I setup the speakers first and it took about a week of fine adjustments until I had them positioned correctly, the results were very surprising. Imaging and dynamics were vastly improved. The darkness of the Vandy's was gone and they became much cleaner and natural. Next and most noticeable was bass response.Bass response was always a bit shy, however the bass was now very tight, fast and correct without any lag. It actually sounded like I had a subwoofer in the room that matched the frequency response correctly.
Next up were the Mapleshade platforms under the Amp, DAC, And Mac Mini. I have always loved how involving and tubelike the Ayre AX-7 was but now the amp brought more clarity and resolution to the entire system. The spookiness factor was back from my old Linn active system although not quite as severe of course. I think that the AX-7 now properly setup and isolated is amazing.
Lastly The Golden Helix cables and jumpers were inserted and cleared up some congestion and brought much more clarity and punch to the system. I have several pairs of expensive speaker cables that could not keep up to these, hence they have been sold.
Since I have made this upgrade I see no need to change anything at all (maybe my DAC at some point). I have now had this running in for winter and the system is amazing and it feels great to spend money in the right places.
I am no way associated to Mapleshade Music whatsoever, all I did was take a chance with a modest investment of money and time.
I'm skeptical but maybe I'll investigate. (thanks for the tip)
One upgrade I recommend for you is the DSD for your QB-9. Not to play both DSD titles you might be interested in but for the improved sonics with PCM material. I promise you'll be happy. The problem, however, is the wait. There are stories of people waiting up to one year to get the upgrade!
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