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Finished this Sure 500W Class D power amp. and sounding great. A lot of work and as you can see pretty cramped under the bonnet. There is 40,000uf of caps and 2 X 300W power trannies. The max voltage you can feed this module is 52V. My PS develops 54V and can deliver 16A (theoretically). It weighs in at just over 10kg. With my ear to the speaker a very slight hiss but at 1m, nothing.Sound stage is razor sharp with central images etched into marble. I have never heard anything so precise. The overall sound may be a little forward but this is comparing with a 300B tube amp. Bass is extensive and full-on. And this baby plays loud. Way too loud for my 30W speakers. No distortion or strain when cranked. It should deliver about 200Wpc with under 1% distortion. It is clean, clear but doesn't feel too analytic. Decay is crazy long and reverb and echo like I have never heard anywhere. Spending time now burning it in. Robusto is a crazy good amp.
| retro-thermionic |
Edits: 02/12/15 02/12/15Follow Ups:
I do say that I am going down that route, too, of getting assembled boards from eBay and assembling them into components. Got to hook up my latest phono stage creation to hear how it sounds. The casework is always the most difficult.
I have also done s few pre-assembled modules. And the case work etc. is always a big part of the construction. Generally I build all amps, presmps etc. from descrete components. Adds more time to the build but it's great to construct from the ground up.
| retro-thermionic |
I have not auditioned this amp but all Class D I have auditioned to date does not sound natural to me. Furthermore I do not require 500 wpc.
Edits: 02/13/15
don't worry, like ALL 'd' amps, the maximum power is strictly time limited due to heat sink limits.
It has only MINIMAL 'sinks.
Too much is never enough
The Robusto amp appears to have a fan. I would not touch any Class D amp with a barge pole, apart from the sound that I am allergic to , they are also far too expensive. Just realised this a a DIY project which of course is of absolutely no interest to me.
Edits: 02/13/15
Why do you feel the need to let everyone know in every class d thread that you wouldn't touch one with a barge pole? Do you think anyone cares?
try it! you know you want to!
You must be a Class D amp fan.
nt
try it! you know you want to!
At seven times the price??
| retro-thermionic |
The Fausto amp appears to have a fan. I would not touch any Class D amp with a barge pole, apart from the sound that I am allergic to , they are also far too expensive.
All my tube amps (300B, 807 and 6V6) make about 5Wpc and that is stacks of me. I built the 100W version but found it sounded awful when wound up a little. So how do you fix this. Get a bigger hammer.
I will only use a few watts of power for general listening a lot of speakers sound better with 400W amps. This amp sounds incredible. If you do not like the sound of class D amps you have heard in the past you just haven't heard a good one. There are hundreds of comercial amps out there in audio land that sound like crap. But a few Sou d good. You just have to find them.
| retro-thermionic |
"Sound stage is razor sharp with central images etched into marble. I have never heard anything so precise. The overall sound may be a little forward"
Sounds like something I would run from.......
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
I do understand not everyone is into imaging. Musical texture appears well presented also with the amp.
| retro-thermionic |
So this is DIY, not a kit right? What did the parts cost if I may ask.
E
T
No not a kit. The amp board come complete but the rest is off the shelf DIY stuff. I'm not going to quote a price here. The last time I was asked what it cost to build I got banned. And this was for answering a members question. Email me and I will discuss it further.
| retro-thermionic |
Oh OK. I got enough info from all the replies. The main board was the issue. The other stuff is straight forward. Again, looks nice. Well done.
E
T
Thanks for the nice comment.
| retro-thermionic |
YW! But hey the proof is in the pics for all to see. Well done! Now enjoy and report back if things change with break in hours.
E
T
Thanks for the nice comments.
| retro-thermionic |
Under $40 assembled and delivered, based on the International Rectifier Aud7 design with the IRS2092 (used by Behringer, Peavey, Crest, etc.), will run on up to ±80V, max current is 17A RMS.Another one from Sure Electronics (I own three of these):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Channel-250Watt-Class-D-Audio-Amplifier-Board-IRS2092-250W-Stereo-Power-hifi/110932803697?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D28797%26meid%3Dbdd619738f724056a019e294874a5845%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D171668071951#ht_4290wt_1084
Edits: 02/13/15
I am ready to build a three-channel Class D amplifier and I am wondering which modules to use? I especially am a little confused between the low power modules (I presume, the TI design) and the high power modules (the IR designs??). I will do the power supply myself, but I don't want to do any discrete assembly otherwise. Any advice?
Stay away from low power modules. They get harsh when pushed.
| retro-thermionic |
NCore or UCd from Hypex would be something to look at also.
How much power to you think you need? Speaker sensitivity? Listening habits?
Too much is never enough
Listening habits? Not really loud, but enough to fill a 12x12 foot room at the least and a 20x20 foot room at the largest using reasonable good stand-mounted monitor loudspeakers. That's as specific as I can get and not head-banger music. Mostly acoustic music with vocals, but some drum kit would be nice to reproduce as well.
I can find 100W Class-AB modules probably just as easily as Class-D modules, so I am really up in the air. I wanted a compact design and a fan is not a bad option if the music is going to be loud anyway.
Here is a link to HYPEX.
The latest stuff, NCore is not the Least expensive, but is well reviewed.
If your speakers are biamp capable, a pair of stereo amps using one of the smaller modules from the UCd series may fill the bill.
The designer, Bruno P. is quite the nice guy (met him several times) and has a taste for Spicey Mexican food when in Southern California.
Too much is never enough
Yes, I remember hearing a low power 5-watt amplifier at a show that sounded terrific for vocals, but as soon as the music had a mix of frequencies, it fell far flat of what one would want.
I'll take a look at the offerings and 70E is not so bad nowadays when converted to US dollars.
5 watts not enough , get out of here ,,,,,,,,,,,,, :)
I didn't use one with the IRS chip. What do you think of the sound?
| retro-thermionic |
I worked for IR for a decade PLUS. I can assure you that the guys who did the 'd' amp project are NOT, or shall I say were NOT encouraged or permitted to go in 'audiophile' directions. Any thought of choosing some parts based on listening tests was NOT on the table.
I believe IR amps were designed for the commodity installer / OEM market not for the home experimenter or audiophile fringe.
I have a stereo amp 'development' board out in the garage and one day MUST get a transformer and the goods for a PS just to see how well it works.
The guys that did the project ARE music lovers, at least the team leader was, but I think at the time he wasn't heavily involved in audiophilia.
Too much is never enough
Do you know someone that could exploit an idea for a better class D amplifier?
Dead-time is critical, too little and the amp gets hot (from cross-conduction), too much and the sound quality suffers.
I have an idea that eliminates the dead-time issue.
Send me an e-mail if you can help.
Here is link to one of IRs white papers on 'd' design and considerations.
ABout 1/4 the way down is a discussion of dead time and bus pumping.
Too much is never enough
I read that years ago.
It defines the problems, but does not offer solutions.
I have a method that self-adjusts dead time, even with variable loading and drive, and over temperature too.
You need to get a PATENT than see if anyone is interested in paying you to use it.
It might be too late right now or has been thought of and is impractical for one reason or another. Also, if another way to do the SAME thing is found, your patent might get 'worked around'
Than, after the idea gets STOLEN you have to scrape up the funds necessary to take 'em to court.
Some intellectual property types (patents and software) I know tell me a patent is worth something after defense in court.
And yes, the IR aritlcle is NOT meant for heavy engineers of 'd' amps. But rather for informed consumers and technical types wanting a peek under the hood. One of the articles authors, Jun Honda, was my connect guy.
Too much is never enough
I don't want a patent, I have had problems related to patents in the past.
I was looking for someone that had the skill to develop it, and then see where it goes. I don't have the time, or energy, to do it anymore. I don't even care about credit, ideas used to be worth a dime-a-dozen, now they are worth about a dime-a-gross.
I would expect people to rip off the concept when they see what it is, and how simple it will be to build. It might be possible to pot the core drive circuit to conceal it from the lazy, but anyone that really wants to know would de-pot it and figure it out in short order (we have a lab at work that does just that).
Yes, I worked with FA people for several decades and some of the techniques got better over time.
Competition was looked at from cosmetics (how much CAN you really do with a TO5?) to electical performance. Delayering semiconductors was difficult for some layers but could be done.
People don't, and corporations almost for sure don't, fully think things thru. The assumption will be that any idea you try to give them will be worth what you are charging them for it.
You MIGHT have better luck at a college or university where electrical or electronic engineering is taught?
At this point I'll put out a feeler back to my old stomping grounds and see if Jun Honda is still there. HE'S the guy you want to talk to. Write him yourself and see if you get a reasonable answer, open a correspondence with him and see where that leads. Hell, CALL him. He is in the corporate directory if still there.
Too much is never enough
"You MIGHT have better luck at a college or university where electrical or electronic engineering is taught? "Thanks for the ideas, I'll give them a try. I know a recently retired EE prof, he might give me some names to persue.
I have an employment contract that assigns all rights to my employer, even in a field far removed from their core business (not audio related). I asked for a release, and they said no. OTOH, a co-worker that I previously worked with when I was in the audio business asked for a release, and they gave it to him (even though it used technology from our present employer). He was granted the patent, and then the problems started (he could not defend the patant without going broke).
'The Case Against Patents' by Don Lancaster is a good read, my current employer receives a negative mention in there.
Edits: 02/15/15 02/15/15
That's what I've been told. 'A patent is only as good as the court defense'. And that those with really deep pockets trump patent holders.
Too much is never enough
2 items here.
Please read the International Rectifier White Paper which covers the dead time issue as well as MANY other considerations of 'd' design.
and
I'm Out of Touch with my old IR cronies now for quite a few years. I don't know WHO works there any more AND, as a matter of fact, the company was BOUGHT by a European company, so even THAT is unknown to me.
Too much is never enough
Easy article to view. Gives a good overview of Class D amps.
| retro-thermionic |
Thanks for the link to the article. From what I can workout from Sure is there are two different types of class D modules. Ones with IR chips and ones without. I friend who got me into these made a 6 channel with 6 X 100W modules. But when they came from Banggood (i think) two modules were very different. It works out that the two different modules (possibly based on the IR chips) sounded poor compared to the others.
| retro-thermionic |
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