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Hey , whats the difference between the arc sp3 and sp6. I see more info on sp3. The sp6 seems to sell cheaper. Im looking for that vintage warm tube sound with transparency.
I would be greatful for any opinions
Thanks so much
Vince
P.s.
I will run with s.s. amps
Follow Ups:
Here's a good alternative , not toobs, but warm .....
Edits: 02/16/15
The SP3 is much more vintage sounding and the SP6 has more of a analytical sound and it's much more complicated in its circuitry.It has a lot of solid state devices and even tho its a nice quiet preamp,the SP3 is much more involving and the regulator it does use is very thoughtfully done and it works very well as far as removing the ripple in conjunction with the power supply caps.My choice would be the SP3.
"If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad; if it measures bad and sounds good, you have measured the wrong thing."
- Daniel R. von Recklinghausen
The SP6 does not have solid state devices if I recall correctly. You might be thinking of the SP9. I've had the SP3, SP6 and SP8 at the same time, and I rebuilt all 3. They are all close to identical amps (and sound identical too) once you have replaced components, and fixed errors in the phono stages of the earlier ones. Unrestored ones will sound flabby and softer simply due to the age of their capacitors and diodes: older = flabby, so SP3 < SP6 < SP8 in terms of quality and modernity of sound for unrestored ones. Change caps and put in ultrafast diodes (uf4002 instead of in4002), and they all sound the same.
The SP3 trades for more due to its vintage status, the nostalgia/lust of baby boomers remembering their childhood dreams, and the very cool front panels. Regulating the SP3 using curcio mods and boards took it to a new level in performance. They all sound very good, close to identical, pretty modern, not lush at all like an old Conrad Johnson. SP8s have also gotten legendary status as being the ultimate ARC 12ax7 pre, and also trade higher than SP6s, for no good reason as far as I am concerned, so if you want to rebuild one, get an SP6. The later versions of SP6 (type E) were almost the same as the SP8 - the SP8 is really an SP6 type F, or whatever) - its just an continuation of the same basic preamp.
However, they are all 12ax7 preamps, with almost the same circuitry, and are handily outclassed by the e188cc/e88cc/6dj8 cascode ARC preamps.
I sold all 3, and am using SP10 as my phono stage, and LS5/II as my line preamp (and ARC DAC3 as my DAC - same design). An LS15 would be a cheap way to get into the e88cc ARC sound. On the other hand, good 12ax7s are cheap and easy to find (shuguang), 6dj8s are a crap shoot, and the cheap ones (russian, as suppled by ARC), sound horrible - you have to chase down 60s vintage tubes, which is a sport in its own right.
Samir
The SP16 could be thought of as the modern incarnation of the SP6 (as I have been told by an ARC tech). I have one with the built-in phono stage and its classic ARC - super quiet background with a touch of 12AX7 warmth and excellent tone. It also has a nice remote control. You could probably find a used SP16 in good working order for less than a SP6 that will need an expensive trip back to the factory for refurb.
The SP16 also responds well to NOS tubes and an upgraded power cables. And an upgrade of the output coupling caps takes the SP16 to a whole 'nother level.
I followed the advice of a fellow inmate Paul Tobin. See his original post below. I did up the value of the new caps from the stock 1.0 to 2.2 as I had room, the difference in cost wasn't much and the increase in value was supposed to improve the quality and extension of the bass region.
I used Clarity Cap MR's with no bypass and had my ARC dealer install them. The caps were $100 with tax and shipping and my dealer only charged $93 to install (I get the loyal customer service rate).
I had the SP16 for 5 years before I did this and loved it but love it a lot more now! Amazing how much this improves an already very good preamp. Easily the best 200 dollars I ever spent on a hardware upgrade. Very happy and will be keeping the SP16 for a very long time.
If you go this route the caps will sound good right out of the box and then just keep getting better for the first 100 hours or so. You'll be smiling the whole time.
I have an SP16 that I use with the VS55. I am extremely satisfied with the combination. I would be very interested in your experiences with upgrading the coupling capacitors. What brand and value did you choose, etc. Thanks
I use a SP 14. I upgraded the coupling caps (.47 I believe) to V-Caps Teflon and the difference was major. A great upgrade for vintage ARC pre-amps.
(nt)
SP-6B is the very best pre-amp (other than my own highly modified Mc C-22) I have ever heard in my own home and system. Of course, if you need tone controls, SP-3 . . . .
Jeremy
Yes a very fine preamp.
A buddy let me borrow one for an extended period of tine when I was dealing with some preamp issues and it filled in admirably. I could have easily and gladly lived with it. I like and prefer a warmer and darker sound ultimately but really enjoyed the audio research.
Good Luck.
...I owned one for several years and at the time it was hard to beat.
Conrad Johnson throughout the years has had a warmer, darker sound.
Hey MK,
HA NAILED ME!!!!!! Kind of like a bird that bonds my first long term experience with tubes in a high fidelity setting (Owned and still do an old Philco cabinet that is sweet) was with cj in the 70's. (probably cj 1st preamp and mv50?) Playing billy joel and although I am not a huge fan it was mesmerizing and I was floored (I was there to pick up my two then brand new Hafler DH500's-Hell made in New Jersey). The experience always stayed with me and I did end up with tubes in the 90's and never looked back. Currently running a Leben 28 pre into cj premier 12's and I am all set and a very happy camper.
Always enjoyed any audio research gear I have been lucky enough to be in front of.
Peace Out.
*
Be careful with linestages that have as much gain as these do. This can offer some challenges in modern systems, especially with sensitive speakers and/or high gain amplifiers.
The SP-3 has a ton of extra stages to allow for integration of tone controls. The SP-6 has a bit more refinement in the loading of the phono stage triodes.
I don't think you'll get "that vintage warm tube sound" your looking for with an SP6. I have an SP6c-1. I find it more neutral than the Citation I. In fact I have to let it sink in after switching as it can sound dry at first listen. Very good preamp however. With the right tubes it's precise.
.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
.
Yes!
Along with some additional resolution and bass punch, the most important difference to me was fixing the somewhat thin sounding lower midrange. I purchased mine used about 15 years ago first as a MKII then had it updated by the factory about a year later.
I agree that the SP-6C isn't the model of a warm sounding tube product. That's what the SP9 replaced. OTOH, I think an SP-6B, however, does fit that mold. Ironically, I based my decision to buy an SP6 based upon hearing the SP6B from two different audio reviewers. By August of 1981 when I pulled the trigger, the SP6C was current production.
and called audio research and they said they had stopped doing the upgrade from the mkII to the mk III roughly a year previously, otherwise I would have upgraded it at that time. Norm
Edits: 02/09/15
I found it to be a worthwhile investment.
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