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In Reply to: RE: Floored, sea change? How about a little clarification? posted by stehno on January 18, 2015 at 01:35:15
a greater than usual surprise at the changes the Liquid Pre has made. I am used to what many would call significant to profound changes that gear make; I hear them all the time as I build so many systems. It's "all in a day's work," to have changes.
Some components shock, however, with how much improvement they bring. When considering a box with some liquid cables, resistors and a potentiometer, would you think it could so elevate your system that you consider it one of the greatest finds in over a decade of going to shows and putting rigs together? That's the impression I have of the Liquid Pre. I go into detail about the sonic characteristics of the preamp in my article, so I'd rather not go into it too much here. Suffice to say what my friend said, "It's mature, refined." When we hear a mature/refined system it is holistically superior in every respect or parameter that we consider valuable.
I have had other products which have deeply impressed me; there are a lot of great components and speakers out there. However, as a system builder I am not willing to allow my quality of sound to retrograde. I have far superior systems now to even a year or two ago - and the sound quality has risen, as would be expected. So, if I was floored by a preamp five years ago, you can bet that it's not going to touch the performance of the Liquid Pre. I don't know how other reviewers work, but for me, in order for a "flooring" to take place, it has to be the best I've ever heard in my room.
But also, it has to perceptually be as good or better than what I recall hearing from the best rigs at shows. It has to convince me I could set up the system at an event and walk away with a "Best of Show" endorsement.
I don't have to do this, I could simply take what comes, but I'm not interested in a fluctuating system, but one which moves steadily toward SOTA. Over time I have learned that since "SOTA" is a moving target, so must my systems, as well as the systems I review. I also have been bowled over by source, cables, speakers, etc. But, they are subjected to the same principle of increasing performance expectations, so that if a next "best" comes along it has to be undoubtedly superior to all prior. I do return to previous pieces to check my perceptions. This obviously is not lab coat science, but I try to keep things as consistent as possible, and the best way to do so is to verify the improvements via the system I own vs. review components which I have shorter term.
In regard to tweaks, I recall many years ago seeing posters decrying them, having what I considered to be a poor attitude about experimentation in setting up listening. I thought, "What jerks!" Well, time has changed things; I find I have little patience any longer for such things. Having tried about 1 to 2 dozen of the supposed wonder devices, I find them collectively in a word useless, a waste of money and time. That is not to say all of them do nothing; it's just that they all do nothing much. I'm not willing to invest my time and money in things that do little to improve systems. Tweaks have not yielded the impressive changes I get with components/cables/speakers - everything in the signal path. There are only two things which have met the criteria for my Law of Efficacy, treating CD's (but now I use file playback, so this is moot for me), and rolling discrete opamps. Tube rolling is obviously efficacious.
As regards others' involvement and motives in tweaks, I've given up trying to argue such things. People will do and sell what they want. There are a lot of smart people who love tweaks. But for me it's not about marginal improvements, but big gains. Others will obviously disagree with this assessment; so be it. I'm not interested in arguing it with anyone, it's the road I'm taking in audio. If someone vehemently disagrees they can find some tweak guru to follow as their source of inspiration. :)
Finally, regarding power, it's the same as with cables having passive electronics in them. I find power conditioning, regeneration, etc. devices to degrade the sound unacceptably. Again, having used several (but I'm always open to returning to test it again occasionally) I'm not willing to accept the degradation they have in terms of definition, microdynamics, etc. I have been able to get to where I want without such devices. Others will disagree, of course, but that's what makes the world go round. Over the years I have changed position on a few things, and am willing to do so again if a component shows up which forces a rethink. So far, it hasn't happened with power components. :)
The greatest impediment to advancing an audiophile system is the audiophile.
Follow Ups:
I don't recall ever reading a review of yours.
But it seems with your superlatives used here that you are in danger of committing the very same offense you claim to have such an acute awareness of in so many others.
For example, you said, "By floored, I mean a greater than usual surprise at the changes the Liquid Pre has made."
If that is true, wouldn't the popular and perhaps overused phrase, "Exceeded my expectations" more accurately reflect your experience with the Liquid Pre?
as it leads to boring writing, and I do not wish to be a boring writer. However, neither do I wish to lose credibility in overstating a product's performance.
In the end the community, as the hear the Liquid Pre, will judge whether I have overstated the case.
The greatest impediment to advancing an audiophile system is the audiophile.
So you'd rather err on the side of hype than risk being lazy and boring? Don't you think we already have enough hype in this industry?I guess where I'm struggling with your potential hype here is previously you seem to have spoke as though you are familiar with every tweak and every tweak's tiny performance limitation, even to the point you won't bother with them in comparison to component upgrades.
Yet, you've admitted you've done nothing to treat the universally noisy AC coming in from the street that dramatically affects every last system, and therefore you're unfamiliar with the potential benefits of proper line conditioning.
It's good to hear that you have tried some line conditioners. But just because the one's you've tried were inferior, should not imply all line conditioners are inferior. That's like saying I tried several crappy preamps, therefore, all preamps are crappy.
Yes, most line conditioners induce their own sonic harm whereas finding proper or superior line conditioner is more like looking for a needle in a haystack. But they do exist and it seems a bit naive that you would choose to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
You know, some of those who have extensive experience with proper line conditioning would say they couldn't tolorate listening to a system without proper line conditiong for more than 10 or 15 minutes due to ear fatigue. Even if that system contained the world's best preamp and cables.
In fact, if a component or cable is truly superior, it's a given that it is more revealing. Yet, a more revealing component does not discriminate between what it reveals more of. IOW, while revealing more music it's also revealing more distortions, (which you obviously have).
The fact that you do little or nothing to minimize the universal noisy AC coming in from the street and since you've not complained about any additional harshness or fatigue with the Liquid Pre installed in your untreated system, one could easily conclude we're not hearing accurate or objective feedback here about the Liquid Pre.
Or perhaps the Liquid Pre induces such a coloration that many of the pre-existing distortions (and quite possibly some of the music) are masked to lessen ear fatigue. Thus giving the appearance to the unaware it is "more musical".
Edits: 01/18/15 01/18/15
hype.
Look in the mirror.
As you seem quite intent on sifting through my comments for criticism, I don't see a great deal of gains from such jousting. For that reason I am done with this conversation. Blessings to you. :)
The greatest impediment to advancing an audiophile system is the audiophile.
Actually, Doug, your comments were raising red flags left and right starting with the title of your first post.
Your comments such as "knocked me to the floor", "sea change", "lightninng speed", and perhaps others do little to exhibit credibility. Not to mention some of your other worldly comments.
But more importantly, if you're unable or unwilling to take advantage of the fabulous benefits of proper line conditioning, not only are you potentially significantly compromising your product reviews, but also your own personal listening enjoyment and growth.
I'd recommend the fabulous Foundation Research line conditioners I've been using for years but that company went defunct several years ago. As I recall, over the past 15 years years, every reviewer who reviewed the Foundation Research line conditioners purchased the review samples. But there's still a few excellent line conditioners out there. For example, I recently auditioned several Jena Labs line conditioners and they seem to be every bit as good as the ones I use, if not a tad better.
You say this Liquid preamp floored you. Well, imagine experiencing similar performance gains to every one of your components simultaneously via superior line conditioning. I'd almost be afraid to read your superlatives.
But at least we and you would know that you're performing due diligence as a reviewer to maximize your system's level of musicality which can only add credibility to your comments and reviews and even the mazazine you represent. Not to mention the enhanced pleasure you'll get every time you sit down between your speakers.
Of course Mr. Stehno would *never* resort to hyperbole. Here's what he says about a $12,000 rack he created and offers for sale on his site. Very restrained :-)
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