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In Reply to: RE: Try google...speculation has it's limits... posted by morricab on January 16, 2015 at 10:19:03
Morri,Wrong conclusion again, Have you ever consider that i might be higher up the Audio food chain than yourself and or you give credit to, It just might be you who may be in need of an Awakening.
I dont listen loud, I listen to music at realistic levels, Each genre has a natural volume level to assume realism and this realism if with good DR requires power for size. Any system not able to deliver at low levels will not deliver at high, same as low only , cannot deliver the dynamic realism necessary for "real" , it's why i wont even consider a point source speaker system except for an intimate small setup, you can't expect a single 1 inch dome to sound realistic, Horns being the one exception, even thou , i cant get myself to get past there shouty character.
Mac's are not in my ballpark, So i agree on your Mac evaluation, They are pretty thou, loved the look from my first in the early 70's with their toooby stuff, not SS.
Regards,
Edits: 01/16/15Follow Ups:
"I dont listen loud, I listen to music at realistic levels, "
You and I both know that this often means pretty loud...often more than is domestically acceptable. I haven't heard many systems struggle with live acoustic music levels or even amplified Jazz club levels.
If by higher up the food chain you mean the source, well of course have considered this...at quite some length in fact. Cables too. Power conditioning too.
"Horns being the one exception, even thou , i cant get myself to get past there shouty character."
Two things, 1) I agree that conventional point sources don't cut it...I have been a big time planar fan for the last 15 years. 2) You have not heard the best in horns if you think they are all shouty...my Odeon horns are actually very smooth and totally non-shouty because that bothers me as well and kept me away from horns for a long time. I still miss my big ass electrostats sometimes.
Those pretty lights can blind people of the sonics for quite some time...
Never heard Odeons before , is it this model , this is quasi-horn , even harder to integrate than a full horn system, which model Odeon ...? I can see class-D having matching issues with such a speaker, you should try the NAD and report ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qm0V3C70QA
Edits: 01/18/15
No it is not this one, although this one does sound very good. Mine was made in around the year 2000 and is a two-way full horn loaded design. The 10 inch mid woofer is back horn loaded with the mouth opening to the floor, which is why it is on "stilts". The 1 inch compression tweeter is loaded into a solid wood spherical horn.
Cab, you are right nothing like a good 20 watt amp ......
"Going into the Audio Arts room at CES was like going through a time portal into the 1986 CES, as Flim and the BB's classic album Tricycle was playing. The system was based on the top-line Zellaton speakers ($79,750/pair) driven by Swiss CH amplification connected with Schnerzinger cables. According to the meters on the Precision M1 monoblocks ($94,750/pair), while the average level was 4–5W, the peaks on the drums reached 360W and more! Yet the sound remained clean and uncompressed - John Atkinson "
Edits: 01/21/15
Hi again.
I replaced my ss preamp with an hybrid piece of kit, made in Greece where I live.
This preamp works miracles with my NAD M22
http://www.tsakiridis-devices.com/thalia_desc.html
Very big soundstage, meaty sound! valves in proven service of class d!
xtsili
Morri,
More Speculation Again , well my turn, you listen at below realistic levels, you and i know that's too soft for realism and i have heard my fair share of horns, they, like everything in Audio, have a sonic character not suited for me, i know it works for others, especially those refusing to actually buy powerful amplifiers.... :)
refusing to actually buy powerful amplifiers.... :)
Been there, done that, got (several) T-shirts...honestly this is the direction most beginning audiophiles head, primarily on the suggestions of people like you. It is rather silly of you to think that being in this hobby for a good 25 or more years that I wouldn't have tried the high powered, lower sensitivity or low impedance speakers. I already told you that I have had a laundry list of planar and electrostat speakers plus numerous "conventional" designs but I still found that what I was missing could only be found in properly designed, tube and/or hybrid Class A designs.
They head this way because most budget designed Class AB amps suck and they think the problem is lack of power...but its not...it is sound quality from the 1st mW.
Morri,
Just as silly for you to assume after 40 yrs at this hifi dig, i would not have tried mW / high sensitivity speakers myself , i can only conclude you had the wrong hi powered stuff or listen softly , i guess you have the ability to hear realism listening to Beethoven 9th at 78db , nor can you explain away with conjecture what Cordell reported exceeding 250 watts on peaks from 1-2 watt avg , try doing that with your 20watt amp. Impossible to reproduce the live structure of a drum kit with less than 93 db/A closer to 100db/A unclipped for "realism" so ok if this is your goal not to achieve , if you accept and reconize the compromise as such , then ok , but thats not SOTA .....
Regards ..
Cordell reported exceeding 250 watts on peaks from 1-2 watt avg
Peaks for how long?? 10 ms?? Who cares? It is only a minute part of the whole performance. Clipping on peaks doesn't concern so much because our ears are less sensitive to distortion when it gets loud anyway...psychoscoustic studies show this clearly and in practice I find it to be so.
Which mW/high eff. rig have you tried? I have been explicit in what I have owned and you have been less than forthcoming...my assumption is therefore probably more valid than yours given your lack of disclosure.
Beethoven's 9th with 78 db peaks?? You can't be serious. Nearly every speaker on the market will make mid 80s db level with a watt or two...at the listening position. This means with 20 watts or so nearly all of these will make mid to upper 90s db. This is loud enough under most circumstance for even Beethoven's 9th...no its not live level but loud enough to get a realistic feeling...if the quality is good enough...maybe that is what you have lost in your high power pursuit so that you HAVE to turn it up...I have experienced this with some high power SS amps in the past.
"drum kit with less than 93 db/A closer to 100db/A unclipped for "realism"
At what distance?? Be specific!
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