 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
109.129.225.213
My friend, who's selling his little Trends amplifier, juts left my place, leaving it for a few days trial period.The little thing has been heavily upgraded with AudioNote caps troughout, big ALPS potentiometer, better cabling... in my system it replaces a Sony TA-N86B class A amplifier that just failed. Preamp is Korn&Macway SP100.
Wow, all I can say is wow... connected to my modded LaScalas, we were both flabbergasted at how fantastic the combination sounds. Such quietness, transparency, speed, dynamic, such imaging, such finely etched treble, warm and liquid midrange, everything is there, i'm still trying to find a fault, it's so much betetr than anything i've owned so far it is SCARY. And on 104dB horns it sounds like it will never run out of steam despite it's 6watt/channel, even when playing rock or heavy electronic music.
I'm shocked. I think my search for the perfect power amp is stopped for a long while! and seeing a power amp the size of two packs of cigarettes drive a pair of speakers the size of fridges to concert levels without any strain is quite amuzing! I had read on the 6moons review of the Trends TA10.1 how magical a match it was with Klipsch LaScala, and how boy they were right...
Edits: 01/09/15Follow Ups:
I for one, am happy that you found a amp that to YOUR ears is the synergistic mate to your modified LaScalas.I don't wish to join the class A versus class D debate. Having said that, I had LaScalas 20 years ago and while I thought they were very good in some respects, but I ultimately couldn't live with them. In retrospect, I now realize that I was using amplification wholly unsuitable for high efficiency horns.
Fast forward 20 some years.....I had the opportunity to hear a pair of LaScalas with tubes - Holy $H&%!!! A few weeks later I heard a pair of Cornwalls with tubes - Again Holy $H&%!!!
Present day; I am using a speaker somewhat similar to yours. It is a Altec/GPA 802 (ALNICO) mid driver with modified 811b horns, Beyma cp25 tweeters, Crites K33 woofers, and a ALK-ES (Al Klappenburger) crossover like yours. In fact, I bought Al's personal pair of Beyma cp25 tweeters. It was Al that convinced me to ditch the Klipsch mid horn and go with the Altec 811b.
I have used a variety of vacuum tube amplification with results that have varied from very good to spectacular. My current amp is a 1959 Sherwood S-5000 integrated with 7189 output tubes, Sylvania 7199 drivers, and Telefunken 12AX7 smooth plates in the pre section. The amp is far from stock after Michael Samra did a stem to stern rebuild and I can not say enough good things about this amp.
7 or 8 years ago I had a King Rex chip amp (which uses the same tripath chip as the Trends) that I played around with on a variety of conventional speakers. I had my best results turning the volume control of the King Rex down to 1/4 and driving it with a 12AX7 tube based preamp. Your results have piqued my curiosity again and I may look for another chip amp to play around with.
Again, I am happy that you have found a suitable dancing partner for your LaScalas.
Happy listening.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Edits: 01/14/15
Are you using the stock wall-wart or?
At the moment I am, yes.
I just have it since a few days.
I will probably adress that in the near future!
I had a similar problem of upgrading Chinese stuff with an Alps pot. I didn't know they come with long leads like that!!
Anyway, I always need a little amplifier that doesn't weight 30 lbs + and am wondering about Class D.
There are some 100 Watt stereo versions around and I wonder what is better, the 15 Watt class D or the 100 Watt??
Hey!
Want to sell it? Just kidding! I suggested you might be impressed, from a previous post. High Efficiency gives you lots of options.
Enjoy! Chuck
Nice to find something that satisfies, isn't it?
One thing to keep in mind with the Tripath class d: they do not take feedback post output filter, which means they have a load dependent frequency response; this can cause issues if the speakers impedance is highly variable or lower/higher than the value the output filter is tuned to....
try it! you know you want to!
Yup, it's class D, it replaces a very good class A in my system, wich sounded great, well this one is even better
my Klipsch use an aftermarket ALK crossover, wich is designed to maintain a flat 8ohm impedance troughout the whole range. Maybe that helps, but it should be the case with any amplifier I used before.
But did you try your La Scallas with a really good SET? I am guessing your Class A amp was SS and not tube.
Congrats!I guess you are not a "critical listener" as defined by Morricab...lol...
Now you can listen to music instead of gear....
try it! you know you want to!
Edits: 01/10/15
Funny that you think you can speak in my name...well you can't so you should stop, troll.
Last time I looked I never defined for you what I consider a critical listener other than you are unlikely to fit that description.
nt
try it! you know you want to!
Well, I don't know how Morricab defines a "critical listener" but I can certainly define myself as one.I've owned these same speakers for 15 years and can't count how many amplifiers came trough my hands. All had virtues, all were somehow "nice", some were power monsters, some were modestly powered, some were class AB, some were class A, some were contemporary, some were vintage, I've had integrated, separates, I've had british, japanese, american, there was always something "not quite OK".
This modded Trends seems to flirt with perfection.
I didn't chose to try it because i needed an amplifier on the cheap; I read great stuff, this one is heavily upgraded, and also i grew tired of bringing my other amps for repair and paying fortunes for that...
Edits: 01/10/15
so much for the claims of audio gurus who like to denigrate class d and the tastes and "critical listening" skills of others....
try it! you know you want to!
I guess there's no "right" or "wrong" answers anyways.
It's only 6 clean watts / channel, drives horns to concert levels but might run quickly out of steam on more conventional speakers.
I'm also using a very good preamp, wich is not entry-level at all and has to play a part in the global picture.
I also read that Tripath are somehow more satisfying than other types of class D implementation; and last, maybe it's so musical because it's just a few watts and that's were the magic happens. Maybe a 100watt version would sound like crap, who knows? it wouldn't be so simple, would probably more noisy, there would be more haze and more "hash"... I have no idea...
The eVo2's had linear power supplies. It was pretty good, especially on good recordings; very transparent, but a bit bleached in the mid-range.
Newer Bel Cantos are ICEpower-based, I believe; I haven't heard any of them.
I love the music of ...... Gustav Mahler
Many have high praise for Tripath when it has the right load. Another example of how ridiculous it is to generalize amps.
try it! you know you want to!
LOL!! It proves nothing but your attempts to incite people on this forum...troll
Here we have someone who prefers it to class a, has years of experience, and is a self-professed critical listener....Guess he didn't read your "study"....Game, set, match....
try it! you know you want to!
Class A means not too much by itself...what make, what design, push/pull? SET? Negative feedback applied? There are far more ways to screw it up than to get it right. The fact that he preferred this Trends amp over his Class A is not telling of anything at all...but its nice to see the Class D avenger is on the job to swoop down and defend the Class D honor everywhere!
especially a self-righteous one...
Here is someone with extensive experience with a wide variety of equipment who critically listened to many amps of differing topologies and choose class d, despite your claims of the inferiority of class d. Your additional attacks on the experience and "critical listening" skills of those who favor class d is also shown to be bs by this person's disclosure that he has tried all sorts of amps over a long period of time and is in fact, a self described critical listener.
It proves quite completely that not everyone agrees with your "pseudoscience", your opinions, or your tastes, or that you are "right" and those who disagree are "wrong".... It also proves my point that in fact there is no one "right" road for everyone, only the road that is "right" for each of us.
Peddle your snobbery somewhere else.
try it! you know you want to!
"It proves quite completely that not everyone agrees with your "pseudoscience", your opinions, or your tastes, or that you are "right" "
Just because a science is incomplete doesn't make it pseudo science. You can keep repeating that all you want but it doesn't make it so.
The fact that many of the great designers progressively went from more complex high feedback designs to seemingly simpler, low or no feedback designs says that at least they are paying attention...even if the likes of you are not. This has been a clear trend for the last 20 years or so, which coincides nicely with renewed interest in correlating sound quality with design considerations. Your anecdotal evidence is very weak in comparison to this trend and studies over the last 5 decades that have highlighted the issues with amplifier design and sound quality.
That people bought into the hype doesn't mean that it was really better...power of suggestion is strong in advertising as well as appeal to authority (the engineers MUST know what they are doing, right??). People buy into the hype of Class D as well...it sounds different so for a while it probably does sound better to them ...maybe they get a lower electric bill too...and a wife happy that their big monsters are now little shoe boxes or pizza boxes (a wife not nagging about the big hifi COULD result in better sound afterall).
You are right about 1 thing though, there is no accounting for taste. Some people literally like to listen to metallic noise but we can't really take their opinion about gear choices seriously. Despite the fact that the subjects in studies show a strong preference particular sonic patterns of distortion (in a given world where there is no such thing as a truly linear system) it still is not 100% and people buy more often with their eyes and other factors than sound quality. Good Class D would be fine for a budget device...if it were at a budget price. Once it starts playing in the big leagues, pricewise, then there are serious contenders where psycoacoustics have at least been partially addressed.
You would like to convince everyone that it is all subjective but the studies indicate that there is a fairly strong consensus among those tested and it can be at least partially quantified. Your arguments are purely unscientific. Maybe it bothers you that humans have common rather predictable traits and you feel yourself no longer to be in control of your own destiny? You realize, I hope, that psychology is far from a perfect science due to variability humans. You act and comment like you have no clue about science or scientific method.
It is ironic then that you push the Class D option harder than just about anyone else on this forum, your image and moniker say it all. You talk out of both sides of your mouth on this issue...freedom of choice but "Try it, you know you want it"
Just because a guy has experience doesn't mean he learned anything. This I have learned in my 30 years as a developing audiophile. Most guys don't have a clue about what makes good sound and haven't bothered to really try and learn. Maybe that guy has but falling in love with such an amp suggests to me not.
More self-righteous snobbery about what "good sound" is....more putting down the tastes of others as "inferior" if they don't agree with your own.
By the way, my moniker actually says "try it, you know you want to!", Hardly a cry against freedom of choice but rather an inducement to push past the dogma of wanna-be experts who like to generalize and dictate...
I'm not pushing the class d option, I'm pushing freedom from smug, sanctimonious, snobs who think they somehow have tastes that are superior to everyone else...
Keep digging. The more you insult the preferences, experiences, and tastes of others with your snobbery the more bigoted you look...I guess when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail....
try it! you know you want to!
"I'm not pushing the class d option"
You sure are. And: "try it! you know you want to!" is the proof. At first I just thought it was a parody of the death-by-smoking cigarette manufacturers of my youth. Now I'm not so sure...
If you need validation of your choices, this may not be the very best site. Not because you're right or wrong, you can't be because there IS no right or wrong. Home audio posses no serious restraints due to cost, size, environment, power consumption or performance. I use commercial, solid-state, home audio gear and I'm very happy. But that doesn't mean that I might not whip up an SE tube headphone amplifier or something, I used to build all my own Amps. in the thermionic era (And I still have my chassis punches!). Or maybe something class D as I like the idea of no magic at crossover. (but I'm not so sanguine with the possibilities of out-of-band signals aliasing in-band.
All that matters is if you are happy. I don't give a hoot what anyone else thinks about my system and just because I'm happy doesn't mean that I may not be happier still due to aome future change. That's what makes home audio an interesting pursuit beyond the vast pleasure we get from listening to the music.
Technologically there IS no best solution. If there were, and we all had similar sensitivities and priorities then we would all be using it and happy as dead pigs in the sunshine...
Then I'd need a new hobby.
Have fun, Rick
Use whatever you like. Others here would have you believe class d "doesn't measure up", people who like class d have "no experience with live music", "do not critically listen", and otherwise have "inferior" tastes.
All I am saying is try it before you make up your mind. Don't be fooled by the naysayers who would have you believe that the only valid opinion is their own....Many have tried it and absolutely like it. I'm not saying anyone else's choice is wrong, or that those that prefer something else have no taste, etc. To each his own. There is no place for insulting people with condescending and self-righteous claims of the superiority of your own tastes.
try it! you know you want to!
Coulda fooled me.
I've tried two of them in my system. Not going to be fooled again :-)
nt
try it! you know you want to!
But I think you just tried to.
you wouldn't know niceness if it hit you in the head (or basic English reading skills).
roger wang
nt
try it! you know you want to!
I'm not pushing the class d option
Of course you are!!!
hypocrite...
I recommend people try class d. You find making a recommendation a problem? Now that is hypocritical.I can make a recommendation to try something without putting down something else. I don't have to insult others or be an elitist snob. I don't have to tell people who have a different opinion that they don't critically listen or have no taste.
People shouldn't have to put up with having their tastes and preferences insulted by some elitist snob on this forum.
try it! you know you want to!
Edits: 01/12/15
It was all that was necessary. Others have obviously analyzed your posts and despite your protests to the contrary, you are a Class D fanboy and they are now commenting on it as well.
Notice how I don't have to insult anyone's tastes, question their critical listening ability, or find fault with their equipment to do so?
try it! you know you want to!
Funny how I innocently posted my enthousiasm about a certain device that I just bought and happen to like a lot and it becomes a "class D vs all the others" hainous debate.
In the context of my system, it sounds great. I can't find any fault so far. Does it make it the absolute best? is it the "new technology that will rule all the others"? Of course not. I don't believe in the inherent superiority of something audio. It's all compromise, choice, and finding what suits your taste/context.
If anybody here doubts about my capacity to critically listen and recognize "good sound", let them be, I know what I'm made of, thank you.
Arguing about what's "best" in a hobby where you can chose anything from wide band single drivers to full blown multiple drivers power hungry 3,5ohms monsters not forgetting planars and statics and multiple horn systems, where you can chose from 1000watts SS monoblocs to active multi-amplification with again the choice between multiple classes of amplification, between tubes and solid state, digital front end / analog front end... is pueril at best, and if you ask me, is complete nonsense.
I couldn't agree more! As you said, "It's all compromise, choice, and finding what suits your taste/context." That's EXACTLY what I have been saying....I'm not arguing about amp types, I am arguing for freedom from the self-righteous snobs here who would have you believe class d "doesn't measure up" and is "flawed". They will tell you that you don't know what live music sounds like, that if you like class d, you aren't a "critical listener". They will tell you that unless you agree with them, your tastes are inferior.I find such ignorant snobbery at odds with the stated rules of this forum.
I see no need to insult the tastes and preferences of others in order to validate one's own prejudicial subjective biases.
I see you understand that. Others seem to have a fundamental deficiency...
try it! you know you want to!
Edits: 01/13/15
What IS that system? Many of us, including Morricab and me, post ours in "Inmate Systems," but unless you have done something since yesterday, I don't have a clue as to what you are listening to (or through).
And Dave, the harsh tone of my answer wasn't adressed to you, it was more a reaction on the gneral tone that this post turned into.
Your question relative to what my system is made of is completely normal and I hope my answer was detailed enough ;) I'm of course curious about analog replay but I also believe analog to sound at his best requires some investment I'm not yet able to make.
... because I thought I was responding to the original class d fan, not you :-0
Your system is perfectly fine and clearly a labor of love.
My only point being that since i found a couple supposedly topnotch class d amps to sound so, um, lacking in my system and since the main proponent of them in this thread has neglected to list his own setup in Inmate Systems, there was a certain level of frustration afoot. For me.
'Course I haven't heard all the class d amps around. Who has?
"My only point being that since i found a couple supposedly topnotch class d amps to sound so, um, lacking in my system and since the main proponent of them in this thread has neglected to list his own setup in Inmate Systems, there was a certain level of frustration afoot. For me."
The message is "there is no best-enjoy what you like". You don't like class d, GREAT! Enjoy whatever it is you like. Just don't try to tell me my choice doesn't measure up, is flawed, question my listening ability, or otherwise try to validate your own prejudiced subjective preferences by tearing down those of others with insults.
My system is only relevant for me...
try it! you know you want to!
Still, considering the wide range of options available, and the sometimes mysterious synergy that comes from it, if someone likes class D and you don't, what does it say about class d? nothing. :)
this is all about fun, it's good to educate sometimes, but in the inherently flawed process of trying to recreate live music trough electronic devices, personal taste will always be the final frontier, and there's no reason arguing about things then. my point of view anyways. ;)
Well at the risk again of not being taken seriously because my system is partly vintage and DIY and didn't cost as much as a new car (have no problem with megabucks stuff, can't afford it, wich somehow seems to force me to be confined to the "vintage" section of this forum, sadly enough) here's the stuff I use:
SPEAKERS: Klipsch LaScala base. Only bass horn, bass driver and midrange driver are original. Midrange horn is EV SM120A. Tweeters are Beyma cP25. Passive crossovers are the now (sadly) discontinued ALK engineering "Universal" klispch heritage replacement networks, wich are based on the Klipsch "type AA" network, adding filtering of the midrange section's upper end, the ability to change midrange setting trough various transformer taps while keeping the global impedance 8ohms flat, and making use of Hovland "Musicaps" and litz-wire coils.
They sound very different from the original LaScala, only keeping the high sensitivity, huge dynamics, and fast articulated bass.
PREAMP: a very rare device, Korn&Macway SP100, Belgian brand that relocated in the USA somewhere in the 80's. Probably unheard of on this forum, but it's a fantastic preamp, said (and i'm expecting some criticisms again for quoting this, but whatever) to be in the same league as the famed Treshold "FET" series of preamps from the same era. All I can say is that it sounds indeed great, and is built to very high standards inside and out. Again, here, I'm expecting the nay-sayers to show their nose and say that you can't take seriously a preamp that is not a known reference in the audio world. Blah.
SOURCE: the cheapest of all, KENWOOD DP7090 from the nineties, recommended and awarded at the time as one of the best deals in the digital world, finishing third in a "Nouvelle Revue Du Son" french magazine just behind megabuck players from Cairn and Copland, and before players costing two to four times it's price. Nowadays it's still a more than decent player, but it's Kenwood and it was "cheap" to start with so again I don't expect to be taken seriously.
CABLES: VanDenHul "the integration hybrid" interconnects troughout, QED "original" speaker cables due to the long lenghts I had to get for my bigger than average listening room.
Add in two reflex-loaded "pro" drivers, a 15inch and a 18inch, respectively from Beyma (SM115K) and BagEnd, driven from the same Miller&Kreisel sub amp, crossed at 50Hz.
Due to severe budget restrictions I always had to have a non-conventional view on high quality audio, mixing and matching and making the best out of what I could afford. On the other hand, I'm not musician myself but I come from a family of music lovers, my cousin being a now well regarded jazz guitar player, with already a few widely and worldly available albums signed with difefrent labels, his wife being a jazz singer and teacher at the Music Conservatory in Berlin, and myself having very eclectic taste in music, I believe I know what music is supposed to sound like.
I realise how "defensive" this all sounds but i'm a bit tired of reading always the same doubts concerning us "bottom feeders" and our ability to understand the magic and science of good sound.
I owned Klipsch La Scallas many years ago in college. Mine were stock so I have no idea what your changes have done to the sound for better or worse. Today I find the stock version a bit too colored but still a lot of resolution and fun.
Preamp: Never heard of it.
Regarding your source: the KP7090 has a lot of potential actually:
http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/REFERENCES/Kenwood7090/Kenwood%20CD%207090%20CD%20player%20lampizator.html
My advice if you are a bit handy with a soldering iron is to Lampizate it!! You are probably throwing away a ton of its potential running stock. If you lampizate it then it will be a serious machine despite the humble origins. A lampizator kit is not very expensive.
Your sub arrangement is unconventional to say the least, why two different subs? Why not two of the 15 or two of 18?
I realize what hifi on a budget is like. For a long time I didn't think the amp mattered at all because all I could afford were budget receivers that all sounded similar. Then I got to hear some good stuff and realized it all matters. When I was reviewing I got to hear the REALLY good stuff and was living with a top shelf violinist and making recordings etc. That was the real education.
What I would suggest though is to read some research into sound quality from real scientific inquiries and draw your own conclusions. You may not think it applies to you but at least see what guys who have really thought about these issues and studied them have to say.
I got quickly bothered by the LaScala's beamy midrange horn and rough response. But I didn't want to give up on them. I'm very happy about the outcome, they are as dynamic as ever, but are now much smoother, with a wider sweet spot, much better imaging, and above all they're now truly resolving and transparent as opposed to just "sensitive" and "difficult" as they were before, if you see what i mean (letting you hear more of the music and the recording instead of being just amplifier-picky - wich they still are)
The preamp is great, but it has quite a lot of gain wich proved problematic when used with some other power amplifiers but strangely enough seems to match perfectly with the little T-amp. That was my biggest fear. I'm joining a link to some internet pictures of it, if you care to have a look.
I've read about the "lampizated" kenwood already, I would love to do that indeed, problem is I'm not so good with a soldering iron (yet)... changing big caps on a board I might learn to do, but this seems to be more difficult with smaller parts involved, smaller PCB tracks... one day maybe, or i should find someone handy to do it for me.
To answer one of your previous posts (that for some reason I hadn't seen), no I never tried SET amps, budget and practicality (other, non-audiophile people using the system) make it an impossibility so far. Right now very happy with what I have ;)
I have a Kinergetics KCD-55 Ultra DAC from the early 90s that uses the rare and expensive UltraAnalog 20 bit DAC modules (it made this model nearly double the price of it's sister that used the also very good Burr Brown PCM-63K DAC). BUT the output stage broke. So now I have a Lampizator Amber output stage that I am tapping off of the DACs. I haven't got it all working yet (some technical issues) but I think it is gonna be my last DAC. I also have the Monarchy Audio M24 DAC, which is also superb (BB PCM63K chips tube output, no opamps or transistors) but I think the Kinergetics will beat it.
I have Odeon "La Boheme" speakers, which use a folded horn and a 1 inch compression driver for the tweeter but in a spherical wooden horn. As near as I can tell this results in close to zero coloration form the horn...it is probably the best I have heard from a horn in that regard. They are a bit lower in sensitivity than the Klipsch (98 vs 104) but it still takes but a few watts to get LOUD. I run either a parallel SET with 300B tubes (JJ 322) or my NAT Symbiosis SET hybrid. The NAT is a bit overdamping the speakers so it is a bit leaner sounding with this amp and the JJ is fuller sounding. Horns really don't need the amp to make a lot of damping.
I have a Kinergetics KCD-55 Ultra DAC from the early 90s that uses the rare and expensive UltraAnalog 20 bit DAC modules (it made this model nearly double the price of it's sister that used the also very good Burr Brown PCM-63K DAC). BUT the output stage broke. So now I have a Lampizator Amber output stage that I am tapping off of the DACs. I haven't got it all working yet (some technical issues) but I think it is gonna be my last DAC. I also have the Monarchy Audio M24 DAC, which is also superb (BB PCM63K chips tube output, no opamps or transistors) but I think the Kinergetics will beat it. - morricab
I have a Stax quattro 2 CDP from that era that I was very fond of , very non digital sounding ....havent used in years , should re-cap and give it a go again ...
Regards
Edits: 01/18/15
I was looking into that one but I found out that the Ultraanalog digital receivers went Kablooey after some years due to overheating, so I have steered away now from models that used it. Apparently they were great until they died.
nt
try it! you know you want to!
Synergy is everything!
Congrats... enjoy...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
"What this country needs is a good 5 watt amp!"
Sounds like you found one, homes...
-RW-
I don't see any Audio Note (UK) caps.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
No you're right, my mistake, I actually don't know the brand, I saw an "A" included in a "N" on the caps and thought there were Audionote, not knowing wich other brand it could be with those letters; but now that you say it, i just googled AudioNote caps and indeed they're completely different and probably much, much more expensive. Apologies for my mistake, i was getting carried away ^^
anyways, AudioNote or not, they sound great. And are probably a huge improvement over the original.
Here's a picture of the stock TA10.1. As you can see mine also has a new frontplate to accomodate the much bigger Alps volume pot.
My friend sent me a copy of the upgrades list:
Post a Followup:
| FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
