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In Reply to: RE: Thiel and Vac posted by 32931 on December 13, 2014 at 11:44:04
I've tried an 8 watt 300B on my 101db Zu Definitions and it sounds like crap. Your specs analysis should say otherwise. And this is a far easier impedance curve than any Thiel and I have active bass. Parallel 300B works, but 845 is much better.
I just think people don't understand headroom and effortless when it comes to amps. The amps clip softly or don't have enough headroom and this is pleasing. I just heard Devore O96s (96db) on GM70 and 300B Shindo SETs- I found the GM70 worked best. I would want 104db horns for 8 watt amp, personally.
I listen in the high 70s/low 80s normally, not terribly high although dynamic peaks can get loud--- my old room was larger at 24' x 25', but I've heard a more normal 18' x 14' room a zillion times who has the same speakers and 845 SET amps. My current room is 17'x 14' but I use the Dart integrated.
Play a really dynamic Blu Ray disc/soundtrack or something like Trentemoller's album "Last Resort" and it becomes more clear imo. I think some confuse loud with effortless.
Follow Ups:
"I've tried an 8 watt 300B on my 101db Zu Definitions and it sounds like crap. Your specs analysis should say otherwise."
It is not only power that is to be considered for whether an amp sounds good or not...I though this was obvious but apparently you want a number to poke a stick at. It should go without saying that the design of the amp and particularly the quality of its output transformer matter more than the watts it produces (they also affect how many clean watts you can get).
I can show you parallel 300B amps that will sound better on that speaker than just about anything else. I can show you 845 amps that will rock and ones that will suck...all with about the same power ratings...so what? My JJ has very good bass in fact as it has nicely made double C core output transformers...I have heard much sloppier bass from a number of high powered push pull tube amps and cheap SETs.
"I just think people don't understand headroom and effortless when it comes to amps. The amps clip softly or don't have enough headroom and this is pleasing. I just heard Devore O96s (96db) on GM70 and 300B Shindo SETs- I found the GM70 worked best. I would want 104db horns for 8 watt"
I understand it just fine...its not complicated...it is also not as necessary as you think it is and it is far more important that the amp recovers quickly when it does happen...something high feedback amps cannot do.
We have been around and around this with my friends... they all had high powered behemoths: McIntosh MC501s, Musical Fidelity KW750, Big ass Krells, 1000 watt Class D etc. etc. I the SImAudio Moon W5, which doubles all the way down to 1 ohm. Another guy had a big Karan amp. Now they have ALL switched to tubes and/or hybrids...all. Why? Sound quality and you know what...their 100 or even 30 watt amps still have sufficient headroom all the while sounding much better when they are below clipping. I have two amps, a 100 watt hybrid (but single ended...not many of those about) and a 20 watt (15 watts at 1%) parallel 300b SET. Both drive either of my speakers to much louder levels than I care to stand for long. Both sound powerful and authoritative because both are well designed with big power supplies.
Of course it also depends, not so much on room size as distance from the speakers and how loud you feel the need to listen.
I would not be one to suffer confusion about the difference between loud and effortless.
You want to hear effortless dynamics...put a KR Audio Kronzilla on your Zu speakers...I get the feeling you won't believe your ears.
Dont be so hard on Morricab .... :)
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