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In Reply to: RE: Have to take the Lamm M1.1 off my list posted by fantja on December 01, 2014 at 09:53:15
It IS tilted up a bit at least in my friend's listening room so it will exaccerbate issues already in the electronics.
I am not a fan of Verity speakers. A friend of mine had the Rinezis and they got crushed by a 20 year old pair of Reference 3a Master Control MMCs. This friend found a pair after hearing mine and fell in love with the sound. I heard his Verity speakers and it was no contest.
Also, I have heard the big Sarastro a couple of times and IMO, it is not a well designed speaker...coherence between the drivers is sorely lacking...you can even see this in the Stereophile measurements,which are quite poor for a speaker so expensive.
The Parsifal did sound nice one time when I heard it with the big Nagra 845 tube amps. That was with a big R2R tape deck as well. Since then though I have become much more attuned to coherence in speakers and it is likely I would not be impressed with the Parsifal any longer.
The Thiel is far more coherent and integrated soundwise. In this respect, it beats out most multi-driver speakers.
Really the best sound we got was the VAC30/30, which also sounded surprisingly bright until it warmed up and then it was simply astounding. It is right at the top of my list for push/pull amps (I am still a SET guy though). The amp belongs to the friend with the other pair of Master control MMC...nice combo!
Follow Ups:
I concur -the 3a is a nice speaker. Many Thanks for your impressions on the Verity speakers.
Yes, the VAC/VTL are on my short-list to demo as well.
Recently, I have been reading about the synergy between B.A.T. and Thiel.
Add this one to my list!
Heard the Thiel CS3.6 with BAT VK120 monos and VK5i preamp many years ago...very impressive!
Embarresly stealing some of Cabs Vocabulary, a Ref 3a is a toy speaker, cant understand someone bringing this speaker up when describing and tearing down SOTA level stuff ...
Regards..
I wouldn't regard 3A loudspeakers as "toys" by any stretch. On more than one occasion I've heard them come across far more pleasing than some of the big (allegedly SOTA) flagship offerings. Not to mention the countless reviews where a reviewer is stunned by how well inexpensive ( let's say less than 5K ) speakers can really sing when coupled with much pricier amplification. In the end it's all about synergy.
So, getting the story straight seems to be an issue with you.
I have heard the LAMMS on the following speakers:
Apogee Scintilla
Apogee Studio Grand
Apogee Centaur Major
Thiel CS3.7
Supportive gear was varied but all very high end stuff (Einstein, Silvaweld, Meitner, Resolution audio etc.)
I own currently Reference 3A Master Control MMC...still one of the best small monitor speakers I have heard, Reference 3A L'integrale...a very nice small floorstanding speaker and Odeon "La Boheme" horn speakers (not small). These are full horn with a 10inch backloaded horn and a wooden horn loaded tweeter. They are big and 98db/watt and also very coherent.
If you want my past speakers; here is a partial list:
Genesis VI
Acoustat Spectra 4400 (big 8 foot tall truly full range estats)
Acoustat Spectra 2200
Acoustat 1+1 with medallion interface and upgraded caps
Apogee Caliper Signature
Audiostatic ES100
Infinity IRS Beta (yes the big 4 tower model one step down from the IRSV)
Infiinty Modulus sub/sat system
Dynaudio Contour 1.8MkII
Dynaudio Contour 1.3
Not too many "toys" in that list and a couple of outright big ass speakers.
A side from the reference 3a's none on that list would suite the Lamm and none on the list you used to test the Lamm would i have expected the lamm to sound good on , i have also heard , tested and or listened to every speaker you listed except the dynaudio's..
No neophyte here, funny you think 250watts can work on an app, to over a 100db, so i will note your opinion on the Lamm with such speakers , not the rotational science .
Regards
"No neophyte here, funny you think 250watts can work on an app, to over a 100db, so i will note your opinion on the Lamm with such speakers , not the rotational science ."
It can, Apogee said so and it was demonstrated in reviews by Martin Colloms and others. Not that I would usually listen that loud anyway...it is much too loud for sustained comfortable listening. I do think its funny that you are stuck in a Juvenile attitude regarding power and quality.
The best sound I got from Acoustats was with 30 watt KR Audio amps...right up to the point of clipping and yes it was quite audible when that limit was reached.
I think you seriously have no clue about psychoacoustics and distortion.
I will let you wallow in your ignorance of good sound and psychoacoustics and continue to let you have your high power bad sounding amps.
"I think you seriously have no clue about psychoacoustics and distortion."
He has no clue about a lot of things.......
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
Ahhh Birds of prey, Ozzy and Cab, i leave you two Jay's in ignorance, Lamms are no good and Reference 3a is SOTA ..
Carry on ...
No, my Odeons are SOTA the Ref 3as are just darned good bookshelf speakers.
The Grand Veena a toy speaker? Seriously?
Admittedly it's not in Wilson or Vivid Audio territory, but it is a serious design that does give the owner high performance.
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
I said reference 3a , you said Grand Vienna....
Reference 3A Grand Veena.
Do your homework before you proclaim......
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
You need to work on your reading comprehension ozzy , so let me go slowly, I said a recerence 3a is a toy , you said grand veena , i did not say grand veena was a toy speaker , yet you focus on the monikor error, semantics...
Resorting to Semantics is usually a sign of no game and limited intellect , if you plan to attack sharpen up and yes the system would not allow me to edit , for some reason not from mobile ..
So to clarify A reference 3a(monitor) is a toy and not something i would use to evaluate an amplifier to make an absolute statement like Cab ...
Regards ...
No YOU need to know what you are talking about before you open your big mouth.
The Grand Veena IS a Reference 3a speaker. The COMPANY name is Reference 3a. There is some disconnect between you and reality.
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
As the very happy owner of a (Used) pair of early Reference 3A Grand Veena speakers and a 40+ year experience in this hobby(obsession), I have rarely heard a better speaker and they always cost at least 3 times what these cost new. They have a nearly flat 5 ohm load and the Lamm wold coast driving them.
Edits: 12/02/14
I'm respectful of your position , so I'm very happy , you are very happy Jack :) , I did say Sota systems , i dont think anyone would call a ref3a a SOTA speaker ..
Regards ...
A speaker need not be "STATE OF THE ART" to make music and the 3A products definitely make music that escapes many pretenders, YMMV. The beauty of this "toy" speaker is that less really is more.
SOTA is another one of those non-musical terms that means what exactly?
Tooby,
I specified when i made that statement i was referring to Reference 3a stand mount monitors not the bigger floorstander as corrected in discussion, i have never heard those to comment on personally and also i have never heard of anyone referring to Reference 3a's as SOTA speakers ...
So forgive me ... :)
"i dont think anyone would call a ref3a a SOTA speaker .."
Maybe he didn't say SOTA, but Harry Pearson was impressed with the Grand Veena.
"Yes this is now and will be in the future considered a classic of it's kind. It is, purely and simply, a great loudspeaker".
So the "toy" comment was a little dramatic......
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
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