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Can you suggest a new tube preamp? This is the kind of thing I'm looking for:
-the usual goals for good dynamics and detail, quiet background, uncolored and even tonality and good imaging, but I'm especially keen on articulate bass extension. I frequently listen at lower levels, so appreciate the bass extension.
- small, fine volume-control steps via remote control. This is absolutely key for enjoyment.
- no phono input needed. Actually, only one or maybe two inputs are needed.
- budget $6-7k-ish, new or newer-used. Budgets are mere guidelines.
- must be available for an in-home demo somehow.
- emotionally I prefer point-point wiring, but execution is all that matters.
- if a preamp is sold with more shrill reissue tubes, I can fix that later with some nice NOS ones.
Connected gear: both hi-res and redbook files fed from a CAPS Zuma SoTM server computer into a Hegel HD25 DAC, said preamp into Quicksilver Silver 88 amps with some NOS input tubes and KT150 output tubes driving Sonus Faber Elipsa SE speakers, all wired up with Kimber 1026, 1126, and 6065 hybrid cabling.
Thanks much, Ralph
Follow Ups:
Hello again Asylum -
Still interested in what y'all have to say about a preamp; I'm been searching around for options. Recall that my sole source is SoTM USB digital, and any preamp I get must have small-step remote volume control to fit my music library and lifestyle. I have a wonderfully sounding Hegel P30 preamp for sale that does not have small remote volume steps. I’m seeking a well-toned tube preamp that has articulate bass grip. I also now have a library of DSD files so might consider replacing my PCM-only DAC in the process. Here’s my current list of preamps and DAC+pre’s to audition:
Aesthestix Calypso Signature (perhaps Callisto?)
Vinnie Rossie LIO, arriving in January. Shootout planned then!
Audio Research REF5SE
Grace M905 DAC w/ volume
MSB Analog DAC w/ volume
Auralic Vega – DAC only
Here’s some others that haven’t made the short list but could:
Lampizator 4 w/ 64 step preamp. But apparently requires manual DSD/PCM switching.
Allnic L3000 $12k 41 steps, 14 or 20db gain
Purity Reference 1db steps, $12.5k; also single-ended Foundation model coming soon
Balanced Audio Technology VK-33SE? 0.5db steps
Herron VTSP-3A(r02) - funny but a seller of this pointed me to the MSB Analog DAC.
Zesto Leto – TAD speakers with these sounded best of my short tour of RMAF. Gaudy styling!
VTL TL5.5II?
Correct me if I’m wrong on any of these. So many well-reputed preamps without any volume remote:
First Sounds
Lamm LL2.1 Deluxe $6K
Vacuum State
Thomas Mayer’s 10Y Linestage
Shindo
Other remote-controlled preamps are out because they do not have small steps:
Audio Horizon TP2.3 Linestage (PCM only DAC?)
Cary
Atma-Sphere
Musica Bella
Music First Audio
Nagra Jaz
Prima Luna Dialogue Premium
Thoress
Audio Valve Eklipse; motorized Alps pot
Don't own it but am looking into it.
It has variable gain switch which allows much lower gain for digital front ends with highish output.
- I'm struggling with how the forum doesn't put all the posts in one continuous thread. It's going to send me to the Asylum! Maybe there's a way that I don't know.
- Many responded that I try Cary. However I found that the Cary volume is an ALPS 100K motorized POT. I don't think that is a remote volume-control improvement over what I currently have. The Lamm has no remote control at all! While that works for purists listening to one album at a time, it's not as user-friendly for a digital library with varying output levels.
- My first try is going to be the Vinnie Rossi LIO (think Red Wine Audio). It is a modular system so when there's new DAC technology, the whole unit does't become obsolete. I'll get a new PCM/DSD DAC, and 1 db remote volume control steps whether I get the tube stage or autoformer stage. I won't get it until about Christmas, and still wouldn't mind comparing it to another DAC+Preamp unit.
- Ralph
The Rogue Athena and Hera don't get much exposure because few own them, but they may well be the best components Rogue makes. The Athena is particularly nice at $5K new; under $3K used. These 6H30 based preamps are extremely uncolored and have powerful, extended, and articulate bass response. My Hera has caused me to lose all interest in 12AX7/12AU7/6SN7 based preamps -- I ended up preferring the Hera over a VAC Renaissance III's line stage section (though the phono stage in that VAC was really sweet and hard to give up).
Ralph, you may want to consider Manley Labs' gear. I've had the Shrimp preamp that I purchased used in my system for four years and it has surpassed any previous ones. Thus, it stays put unless something dramatic leads me to change.
Chris - If you like your Shrimp the Jumbo Shrimp which is available as an upgrade is even better, but once you hear their 300B preamp it's all over!
my preamp isn't going to have a volume potentiometer in it like the Cary. Also they don't explain the input level controls in detail. Is that another set of pots in the signal path? It looks like it. Not good.
ET
Have you heard the Cary?
I've heard some preamps with old school volume pots that sound better than others with switched high quality discrete precision Vishay resistors.
Abe it was a post made based on how I feel in terms of engineering. No I haven't heard it but at that money level I'm not buying ANY pre with a volume pot and certainly not one with two sets of pots for the signal to degrade through. I subscribe to the theory from several engineers that know more than me that volume pots are killers to the sound and to be avoided.
ET
I subscribe to the theory from several engineers that know more than me that volume pots are killers to the sound and to be avoided.
Hearsay can be a funny thing. I subscribe to actually hearing the gear for myself.
It's not hearsay, I heard it from Tor at CJ (we talked a few times for hours)and it played out factually for me as I was a dealer selling new and used gear from many major high end sellers including Cary (used) I just haven't heard THAT Cary. Geez Abe, you're not going to change my mind on this nor do I care if you change yours. I added my thoughts to the thread. Some of the turn of the century Audio Research pre's were ruined by that $10 controller chip they used in the volume circuit. I heard a modded one where that piece of junk was removed. Pots are bad. And when you are in that price range or higher you shouldn't have one.
ET
Edits: 11/07/14 11/07/14
I'm not trying to change your mind but to make the blanket statement that 'pots are bad' is a bit ridiculous. There are many expensive preamps available that use pots and I'm sure many of them sound great. The Cary SLP-05 certainly does.
I listen to the entire product when I evaluate it. I don't knock it because it uses a pot, or electrolytic caps in it's power supply, or a PCB instead of hand-wiring, etc.
Automatically disqualifying a preamp with pots because some engineer told you they're bad is like knocking belt-drive turntables because an engineer who designs direct-drives told you belt-drives are bad.
Silliness IMHO.
Excellent points all. These companies should strive for the best sound w/ minimal parts (especially cheap ones).
Hello Fellow Inmates,
I really appreciate all the input, and reckon that we are all more lost without each other! There are some good suggestions to start; Cary SLP-05 gets frequently suggested, BAT and VTL. Curiously nobody mentioned Aesthetix. Another suggestion had me thinking in a tangent...
Since my sole source is digital, then how about leaving out the preamp in favor of a DAC with a proper analog volume control? I don't need source selection, and can still mess around with NOS tubes in my Quicksilver Silver power amps. My source is a PCM/DSD library from JRiver on a micro Zuma SoTM CAPs. Selling my current SS preamp and PCM DAC will net around $7500, funds that can be recycled into a PCM/DSD DAC with a proper volume control.
A potential candidate is the MSB Analog DAC, which does all this and potentially offers upgrade capacity. The volume control is 1db (78) stepped-attenuator. Thoughts? Suddenly in the wrong forum?
NAD M51, Bel Canto, and Hegel, all highly regarded. I've spent a few hours with each and decided that I need a preamp in my system. Everything that I liked about the digital source and DAC was made better with my Cary SLP-88, if that makes sense. My advice is to listen to as many preamps as you can first and then choose a DAC after deciding on the pre. Purists may go the direct route but not me.
Best I have heard in the price range you are shopping. Another top notch performer in that price range is the AcousticPlan Sarod preamp.
Both have full tube power supplies and output transformers with nickel alloy.
Another to consider would be the mid-level Allnic preamp (new) or maybe you find a good deal on the L3000 (used) from Allnic.
I was mightily impressed with a Rogue unit at a dealers yesterday. Dont know what model but it challenged my Conrad-Johnson CT 5.
I remember hearing a Rogue preamp many years ago (Rogue 66?) and ended up preferring an inexpensive Hafler 915 SS preamp! I had a pretty limited budget in those days (Grad student) but the Rogue didn't really impress me. I would still be interested to try out the 99 magnum but not any of the others.
Worth a look.
Have fun.
I think the UV3 is actually better sounding. One should talk with Kara Chaffee. She's very candid.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
The deHavilland Mercury 3 Preamplifier: "32 step stepped attenuator" isn't the kind of volume control I'm seeking, thanks tho.
Available with remote...
Was that it?
Best wishes
.
Gary, I'm hoping to plead the 5th on this. The sound of my current SS preamp is good, and I can sell it to cover most of a new purchase. What it doesn't have is fine remote volume control. The front panel volume control is about 0.5 db, but the remote control is coarse. I didn't discover that during demo, nor realize how nutty it could drive me.
Understood. I've heard the Cary SLP-05 others have recommended. It really is special although I don't know if the remote will meet your needs. The remote that came with my Rogue Cronus Magnum has those wide volume steps. It's one thing on that amp I'd like to see changed. Good luck with your search.
Rogue or Audio Research are sonic matches for SF speakers.
New or used
In that price range, I'd look at Blue Circle Audio's tube preamps. There's a continuous upgrade path from the BC3/BC3PLS to the BC3000 MkII with several steps in between.
I've owned 2 of their preamps, one SS and one tube and still have the custom SS version due to its super low impedance and the fact that it was made in modular form and i had 2 other modules, already. They do a lot of custom work on demand, as well.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
I have the SLP-88 and heard the 05 at a friend's house. I'd start there if that was my budget.
The Cary SLP-05 is a wonderful sounding tube preamp.... the best I ever had in my system. I especially enjoyed it coupled to a good solid-state power amp.
Abe-
can you tell me why you moved on from the Cary?
We moved to a home that had a finished basement that made for a decent AV setup. Unfortunately, the previous owner had the middle cubbyhole designed to fit a large boxy rear projection TV (before Plasma and other flatscreen technologies were available). See the photo.
The Cary SLP-05 was not a good fit for the limitations of the space and the AV rack that I was using which supported the TV and other gear inside the cubbyhole. The Cary is rather high with the linestage section sitting on top of it's external power supply. Even with the power supply to the side of the Cary, it needs more vertical space for good ventilation. In our previous home we had a separate home theater and audio setup. In the one pictured, it was combined and I needed a more 'traditional' one-box linestage that would more easily fit the limited rack space.
I also enjoy trying various gear so just because I sell something does not mean I found something better. I still believe the Cary SLP-05 was easily THE BEST linestage I ever owned in terms of audio performance.
My current setup has me in a small home office listening room until we finish the basement.... maybe someday.
Photo was taken in 2009. The Cary SLP-05 was long gone by then.
Beautiful pic Abe!
you have certainly had the top gear in your system(s) over the years.
My SLP-05 loves tube amps, too! I think it would push the OP's buttons.
"Your liver suffers dearly now for youthful magic moments...so rock on completely with some brand new components"
Hi - I'm in Colorado and don't think that there's a Cary dealer near me. I sent in a query email.
Thanks everyone!
This must be the Cary lover section.
No, it's actually the Rogue Audio lovers section but the Cary SLP-05 is especially good as tube preamps go.
How did that work out for you? Was the Cary a whole lot better?
Yes, the Cary was MUCH better sonically vs the ARC. The ARC LS25mkII was lean in the lower mids and shy in the bass compared to the Cary. The Cary offers a more harmonically rich and robust sound overall. If you prefer a more neutral or sterile sound, the Cary is not for you.
Where the ARC shines is in it's versatility with balanced ins/outs, full-function remote with input switching, adjustable gain, etc. The Aesthetix Calypso has similar versatility and a warmer tone than the ARC.
I would choose the Cary purely on sonics but other factors may come into play depending on your needs.
I'll remember all those preamp suggestions, but first I'm thinking to audition some DACs with good volume control and DSD. MSB Analog DAC? A Lampizator? Others?
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